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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Non-Kosher Chickens
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myname1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 2:36 am
Has anyone heard that chickens nowadays may no longer be a kosher species? Because of inter-breeding I believe, there is an opinion that the chickens sold in supermarkets with every hechsher may not be kosher. This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel. Curious if others have even heard of such a thing.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 2:45 am
With which animals should a chicken to interbreed with? Every chicken is kosher right?
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myname1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 3:13 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
With which animals should a chicken to interbreed with? Every chicken is kosher right?

Some kind of non-kosher bird. Dh said there are signs in the gemara of a kosher bird and a lot of them don't seem to fit with our chickens (when they go back to the coop at night is one he's mentioned).
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kalsee




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 3:24 am
Quote:
This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel


Definitely not .

Maybe there is a minority opinion.
I know a family that only eat turkey for poultry, this might be why
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 3:29 am
myname1 wrote:
(when they go back to the coop at night is one he's mentioned).


Halevai they were let out. Do you know what chickens’ lives are nowadays?
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new oldie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 4:05 am
kalsee wrote:
Quote:
This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel


Definitely not .

Maybe there is a minority opinion.
I know a family that only eat turkey for poultry, this might be why

That’s really interesting, cuz I know a lot of people who don’t eat turkey since they hold there’s no mesorah for it.

OP, I know that there are some species of duck that aren’t kosher.

I’d be more worried about chickens being raised in a backyard than about chickens that are made for eggs or to be eaten. Chickens owned by companies are monitored and are made sure they can’t run away. Chickens that are raised in the backyard that aren’t monitored can have visits from other birds and animals. Not that it happens but I feel it could be more worrisome.
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Living Princess




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 5:20 am
kalsee wrote:
Quote:
This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel


Definitely not .

Maybe there is a minority opinion.
I know a family that only eat turkey for poultry, this might be why


And I know families that have a Mesora not to eat turkey, I think descendants of the SHL"AH
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 6:14 am
kalsee wrote:
Quote:
This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel


Definitely not .

Maybe there is a minority opinion.
I know a family that only eat turkey for poultry, this might be why


Interesting. And aren't their people who avoid turkey?
Eilu v'eilu.
If there were an issue, I trust my local vaad hakashrus to be on top of it and publicize it.
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nicole81




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 6:53 am
myname1 wrote:
Some kind of non-kosher bird. Dh said there are signs in the gemara of a kosher bird and a lot of them don't seem to fit with our chickens (when they go back to the coop at night is one he's mentioned).


We domesticated them into horrible coop lives over thousands of generations. Learned behaviors doesn't make them non kosher.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 3:56 pm
No, not all chickens are kosher. There are only about 6 breeds that are considered kosher thru Mesora. There are probably a dozen or more that are considered treif as it's not in our mesora. (like those who don't eat turkey).

2 signs of a kosher bird are peelable gizzards and 4 toes-3 in the front, one in the back. (2 in the front and 2 in the back are birds of prey and not kosher). One of the signs or a non kosher chicken is feathers on the feet.

Most companies today use the same breed of bird. They don't switch around the breeds or "interbreed" for many reasons. One is that finding a breed where the feathers come out easily. Some breeds the chicken is ripped apart from trying to remove the feathers.

This info all came from the owner of a kosher chicken factory.
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TheNeutralOne




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 31 2023, 6:07 pm
We have been raising chickens for many years. Not all chickens are kosher.
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myname1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 2:29 am
shanie5 wrote:
No, not all chickens are kosher. There are only about 6 breeds that are considered kosher thru Mesora. There are probably a dozen or more that are considered treif as it's not in our mesora. (like those who don't eat turkey).

2 signs of a kosher bird are peelable gizzards and 4 toes-3 in the front, one in the back. (2 in the front and 2 in the back are birds of prey and not kosher). One of the signs or a non kosher chicken is feathers on the feet.

Most companies today use the same breed of bird. They don't switch around the breeds or "interbreed" for many reasons. One is that finding a breed where the feathers come out easily. Some breeds the chicken is ripped apart from trying to remove the feathers.

This info all came from the owner of a kosher chicken factory.

Yes, the toes are the signs dh mentioned recently. But he said there's no question that the chickens today are a result of interbreeding. He said the only questions are with what birds were they breeded and what implications does that have (if they were non-kosher).

But you're saying most companies don't interbreed at all? Wouldn't they try to find a bird whose feathers come out easily and davka breed with that? I'm not understanding why they wouldn't interbreed because of that.

In response to others, that is why we have been eating only turkey. But I HATE having this limit! Dh said the not eating turkey opinion is a matter of minhag (eating with no mesora), while this would be a straight-out issue of eating a treif animal, so he doesn't want to risk it. If anyone has good recipes for turkey (breast or legs or wings), I'm all ears!
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rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 3:09 am
myname1 wrote:
Yes, the toes are the signs dh mentioned recently. But he said there's no question that the chickens today are a result of interbreeding. He said the only questions are with what birds were they breeded and what implications does that have (if they were non-kosher).

But you're saying most companies don't interbreed at all? Wouldn't they try to find a bird whose feathers come out easily and davka breed with that? I'm not understanding why they wouldn't interbreed because of that.

In response to others, that is why we have been eating only turkey. But I HATE having this limit! Dh said the not eating turkey opinion is a matter of minhag (eating with no mesora), while this would be a straight-out issue of eating a treif animal, so he doesn't want to risk it. If anyone has good recipes for turkey (breast or legs or wings), I'm all ears!


I don’t understand
That’s what kashrus organisations are for. If you trust a certain hashgocha - you trust it.
The mashgichim and shochtim should be learned people.
I’m sure they know about different breeds of chickens.
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myname1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 3:31 am
rowo wrote:
I don’t understand
That’s what kashrus organisations are for. If you trust a certain hashgocha - you trust it.
The mashgichim and shochtim should be learned people.
I’m sure they know about different breeds of chickens.

I know. I told dh he should call the hashgachos and ask. He said the head of one of the hechsherim won't eat chickens himself because of this. Possibly more than one. It's so weird. I'm going to ask him later again who he asked and why he can't ask others (or if he did). I just can't remember.
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rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 6:29 am
Call your Rov to discuss this and clarify.
As mentioned above there are clear simanim of a kosher chicken.
Chickens have been domestic animals for thousands of years. This isn’t a new situation.
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daughterofgod




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 7:16 am
There is a mesorah and no not all chickens are Kosher according to mesorah and that is why turkey is not eaten by certain people because it doesn’t have a clear mesorah. Its an American Bird.

There are mixed breeds but we dont consider those kosher.
The feathers on feet like somebody said is a sure sign on not kosher.

This topic though is not an issue for most people because the regular factory raised chickens in America are cornish breed and those are ok.

The ways chickens are raised in factories now is unreal. And cows. Im a regular person not a animal rights activist but its just so so cruel and I can’t understand how we allow it. And the way people hold the chickens for kaparos….its unreal
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daughterofgod




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 05 2023, 7:17 am
myname1 wrote:
I know. I told dh he should call the hashgachos and ask. He said the head of one of the hechsherim won't eat chickens himself because of this. Possibly more than one. It's so weird. I'm going to ask him later again who he asked and why he can't ask others (or if he did). I just can't remember.


Because of the breed or because of the way they are schechted and kashered?
I know many mashgichim wont eat certain chickens for kashrus reasons but not because of chicken breeds. They use the same breed across America. Theyre all commercially factory raised and tortured lol.
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ChossidMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 10:55 am
A bunch of poskim in Israel just put out a paper saying that all chicken is a big problem because of cross breeding and that there is a major chashash of treif mideoraisa. I am looking for dry info on this, without getting into if it's kosher or not. My husband asked me to find out about how chickens are bred. Where can I look to get the facts?
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 10:58 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
With which animals should a chicken to interbreed with? Every chicken is kosher right?


Actually, not. Silkies are a common example (look at the toes)
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 11:21 am
kalsee wrote:
Quote:
This opinion is supposedly prevalent among kashrus experts in Israel


Definitely not .


I know a family that only eat turkey for poultry,


Which is even more odd, as there are people who shun turkey for doubtful kashrut. The Chumash lists specific birds that are tref but not birds that are kosher. Some people feel that because turkeys are a New World bird that was unknown in the ancient Middle East, the assumption of kosher-because-not-named-in-the-list-of-tref-birds does not apply.
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