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This month is making me doubt my ability to be frum
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amother
Peach


 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:19 pm
Sensory play usually keeps my kids independently busy for the the longest time.
I haven’t looked into if it’s ok for shabbos and yomtov, but tubs of water they can scoop and pour, rainbow rice, orbeez etc
Ideally these are good for outside play, but if you can contain it to one area, they aren’t too hard to clean up after.

Most of my kids are older, but when I had only younger kids at home, yom kippur was almost an exciting day for them.
I would make sure to have tons of food prepared before, and either a cholent or deli sandwiches to give them for lunch.
I’d cut up fruit and vegetables, cheese, hard boiled eggs etc and prepare lunchboxes for each one so the food was easily accessible for them to take themselves. Plus snacks of course Smile a good size pekeleh for each one. Some treats, but mostly stuff like chips, cookies, pretzels, raisins, seaweed snacks, things they like, but that won’t affect their mood too much.
Like others mentioned, new toys or a new setup.
Enabling me to lay on the couch and supervise, with everything set up.

Is your 4 year old up to going to shul at all? Some shuls have kids programs for that age.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:23 pm
Where does frum come into play here? You have 3 close in age and that is overwhelming. None jews don’t do day camps and their kids are home for 11 weeks straight. Same with many legal holidays and long winter breaks…plus school only starts at 5-6 years.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:26 pm
Also, just want to add,
I always say that yomtov is really not kid friendly, the late nights, different schedules etc etc can make it hard for them.

But over the years I’ve realised, they don’t remember the hard parts, the crying, kvetching…
They just remember the good bits.

The special yomtov pekeleh, the excitement for the new toy, the dance parties in the sukkah, the staying up late playing with cousins, the yummy dessert you only make for yomtov…

My kids don’t remember that I lay on the couch all day without energy to play with them when they were little, they like to laugh with me how I prepare over stuffed snack bags for Yom Kippur and feed the little kids more on YK than any other day 😂
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:43 pm
amother Peach wrote:
Also, just want to add,
I always say that yomtov is really not kid friendly, the late nights, different schedules etc etc can make it hard for them.

But over the years I’ve realised, they don’t remember the hard parts, the crying, kvetching…
They just remember the good bits.

The special yomtov pekeleh, the excitement for the new toy, the dance parties in the sukkah, the staying up late playing with cousins, the yummy dessert you only make for yomtov…

My kids don’t remember that I lay on the couch all day without energy to play with them when they were little, they like to laugh with me how I prepare over stuffed snack bags for Yom Kippur and feed the little kids more on YK than any other day 😂


Well it depends on the kids. Not everyone grows up to love yontov. And that’s not necessarily the parents fault
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:48 pm
flowerpower wrote:
Where does frum come into play here? You have 3 close in age and that is overwhelming. None jews don’t do day camps and their kids are home for 11 weeks straight. Same with many legal holidays and long winter breaks…plus school only starts at 5-6 years.


Couldn’t disagree more. This is a very intense and stressful month. Non Jews don’t do day camp? Where I live people have childcare for their kids almost every day of the year- and are not expected to make huge meals and fast while caring for their kids
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 19 2023, 9:55 pm
amother Lightcoral wrote:
The thing about having kids and managing is that it's not the same every day. On good days, you're flying high and can handle three more. On bad days you can't handle even one kid. It doesn't reflect on you as a mother, or your choice to have them. It's just the reality of having kids. There will be good days and bad days.

Maybe it's too late at night for me to be eloquent, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.


Omg yes!
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amother
White


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 12:01 am
I didnt read all your posts, but it sounds like your oldest is a bit more difficult then the typical 3 year old, so I just want to validate that.

Here is what I have found useful for Yom Kippur - which is the worse, because we don't have the physical energy to really engage.

I try to find a friend or neighbor or relative that we can spend some time with over the day, to give the kids a change of scenery. The house gets destroyed, but it helps.

Also if you cant find a young girl - sometimes I have "hired" a neigbor who is not at the stage to babysit to make a camp. The 6-7 - 8 year olds love it.

A new toy is really helpful. I would recommend a pretend play toy - like a kitchen with dishes and food, a workbench with tools, a grocery store with food and a shopping cart....
These can be expensive but I have done very well with second hand sites like facebook marketplace, craigs list for the big item.

New exciting treats that are healthy and wont give them a sugar high helps to. I make fruit lolipops, I freeze yougurt in in those freezepop bags, cut the veggies into fun shapes.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 12:39 am
New books and toys or ask neighbors to trade books, toys that'll be new for your kids. We try to get something new for the kids and lots of extra treats especially yom kipper if you able to get a 10 yr old to help play with them really helpful.
Boxes are great if you have save build out of, let them wreck the house and try to stay on the couch, the fasting pills and lots of water and grapes before the fast
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 2:21 am
For engaging books for that age, I recommend "pop-up peekaboo!" published by DK, whatever that is. (dk.com it says) They're fun! A bit delicate though if looked at alone by toddlers, bot actually not too bad. We have a little collection of them and they're really fun for little kids to look at themselves. The pages open in a really impressive way to make the pop-up parts. I can't really explain it, but they're fun to just look through. (Not Jewish books, but pretty parve. Just cute photos of stuffed animals and other toys. My favorite is "Sophie Pop-Up Peekaboo!" A toy giraffe's stuffed animal friends looking for her.)

For fun worthwhile toys, my son loved selling me food at that age. He would make stores and bakeries and ask people to shop. With a cash register and toy food, he was set. If you have a shopping cart, even better. You can use the clics or magnatiles to make the bakery/store shelves. My son had a friend a few years older at that age (a neighbor who didn't have little brothers yet) who really taught him how to play. He LOVED that kid's games. But if your kid's open to suggestions, I don't see why you can't introduce him to some fun creative games. Build magnatile trains for mentchies to go on, take them (the mentchies) to the zoo (do you have toy animals?), build a house from clics and put in some toy furniture (do you have any?), like a dollhouse.

Can you tell I have way too many toys? If you don't have something I mentioned, maybe you can borrow from someone to see if he enjoys it enough to make it worth looking into getting. Toy animals I've seen at the dollar/shekel store (not well-made but still useful). Little plastic furniture you can probably find used pretty easily. You said you have clics for yom tov. Do you have magnatiles? Those are truly the best! Especially for 2-4 year olds. My dd at 2 made "parks" all day long. She would just put the magnatiles together as a floor and build walls around, and say "Look! A park!" Smile

If you can get your hands on an idea book that would come with things like clics or magnatiles or duplo/lego or any other building toy, that kind of thing amused my son nicely at that age, too. See how many things in the book he can figure out how to build. Magnatiles had a bridge he built and then put his toy cars on. Clics have the houses to try and build.

Sorry if this is overwhelming. It sounds like your son doesn't really know how to sit and play, so I'm hoping you can teach him by modelling ideas. I'm not sure if it would work for your son but sounds like it could be worth a shot. Like I said, my son had an older friend model for him all these games. But then he learned to play himself, too. And taught his little sister, and they played some of these things together. 4 and 2 are hard ages. He's getting big enough to really play with others but she might not be ready quite yet. And play dates at that age also require a lot of help from mom. Who's then busy with bored little sister. In a year or so I hope your big ones will be good friends, playing together all day long.

My son is really intense, too. But he sits and plays for hours- it's the only time he's calm. If he's getting too wild he can sometimes snap out of it if he thinks of or I start him on a fun engaging game like those I mentioned above. He's 9 now, but will still play some of these if I remind him. Or Playmobile, but that was just since age 7 or so. But it definitely helps the day go by on Shabbos and Yom tov! Good luck, it is a difficult few weeks, I hope it goes okay for you in the end!
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 5:09 am
I would hire someone (a young girl or a non Jewish nanny ) to take care of 1-2 of the children especially for YK. This way the kids will be separated.
Or stay at a family member with a grandmother or teenagers who would be willing to help out a little bit.
It’s very hard, I think everybody with young children and no help is going through similar.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 5:39 am
amother OP wrote:
What does hashem want?

My kids need school and routine, I have 3 young kids (4 and under). They seem to be a lot harder than what I see around me. Never play on their own/ always need to be actively watched and entertained. my kids pull each others hair out, poke each other, sit on the 6 month old
The oldest is a wild boy that struggles with self regulation.

Oh and they basically don’t sleep- bedtime takes hours and there’s multiple night wakings each night. I am exhausted always and my husband splits with me so he usually is as well. He’ll watch them for about an hour in the am for me to sleep.

It makes me sad because on a regular day they go out for a few hours and the afternoon is mostly ok- I’ll take them out to play/ for a walk, I have a mothers helper play with the baby while I bathe the bigger ones etc.

RH was beyond horrible, fight after fight and that’s with the break of taking them to shul and out for seudos + one visit (those all take energy but they are engaged and we all enjoy). I was faint by the end of the day and my husband didn’t go to any evening refills (incredibly embarrassing and frustrating…)

How in the world will I survive Yom Kippur?

I am dreading every day of sukkos as well. My kids and I are literally coming apart at the seams. I potched my big one 3 TIMES over RH. It happened maybe twice before in his entire life.

My middle one has been toilet trained, had 2 accidents over yt.

And yes I know about BC, not the point here and things were not this hard when I got pregnant.

I obviously also get in zero davening and feel no connection to yt other than being incredibly grateful to god that these are my challenges and davening for more koach.

I just don’t know how to fast and I don’t know- will my kids complain they were abused and raised in absolute chaos just in the name of religion?


I would suggest, instead of switching off with dh to watch all kids, use him to spend individual time with the older two. I feel like they cry for attention.
Also when you write „my oldest isn’t emotionally regulated“ , he shouldn’t be. You should teach him how to do it and having two younger kids is no excuse here. You have very very young kids and it all sounds familiar.

Also when I was at this stage, I did everything on my oldest‘s schedule. You need to take him out to the park regularly if that helps his moods, and have the littles nap in the buggy.
Etc.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 6:08 am
I would not recommend orbeez with babies and toddlers around they can be very dangerous because if ingested they expand internally and can cause intestinal blockage there was a recall because a child died
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amother
Steel


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 7:26 am
https://judaicaplaza.com/produ.....D_BwE
OP here's an example of a book my toddlers loved that kept them busy. Bonus if they can do it with a sibling a bit older than them, it makes the big sibling feel so big to take care of or read to the younger one.
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 7:46 am
On Yom Kippur can you play outside? Do you have an eruv where you live? Can you go for walks? Can you do melatonin for bedtime for your eldest? That might be the easiest first step to help him get into a routine and settle down. He sounds like he needs some kind of behavioral intervention/OT possibly ADHD down the road. I used to be anti-medication, until I had a child who needed it and now it's the best thing because it allows him to be his best and fewer frustration=fewer altercations=better relationship.

No 3x potching on one day will not become "abuse"--if it stays at that. 4-year olds are starting to become accountable for their actions. I wouldn't potch for something "beyond his self-control"--but something along the lines of "purposeful defiance" and only as a last resort. Meaning you've warned, you've tried other methods but if he still looks you in the eye and does what you said not to--then that's justifiable. You need to be the parent and set the boundary of "Mommy said so".

My teaching/parenting mantra is "we are hockey goalies"--a GOOD hockey goalie has an above 90% save percentage. He will let things in, but as long as over 90% of the pucks stay out the team has a chance to win. You won't win every battle, and yom tov season is a challenge. Hashem wants you to win 90% of your battles. Take each "puck" as it comes.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 7:47 am
imaima wrote:
I would suggest, instead of switching off with dh to watch all kids, use him to spend individual time with the older two. I feel like they cry for attention.
Also when you write „my oldest isn’t emotionally regulated“ , he shouldn’t be. You should teach him how to do it and having two younger kids is no excuse here. You have very very young kids and it all sounds familiar.

Also when I was at this stage, I did everything on my oldest‘s schedule. You need to take him out to the park regularly if that helps his moods, and have the littles nap in the buggy.
Etc.


I have help for 2 hours- my dh will play with big kids while lady watches the baby or one of them if baby sleeps so they each get one on one.

Not sure where you see excuses, my oldest gets a huge amount of attention and one on one time but still just has a harder time. We are looking into options ( sensory Ot etc) of next steps, but he already has Ed/ play therapy and pt. He can’t walk far but I take them to the park every shabbos , I can’t physically pull it off yk. We do have a big backyard and a trampoline he just has to be willing to engage. On a regular day it’s fine it’s just this super long day with me not at my best.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 7:51 am
tichellady wrote:
Couldn’t disagree more. This is a very intense and stressful month. Non Jews don’t do day camp? Where I live people have childcare for their kids almost every day of the year- and are not expected to make huge meals and fast while caring for their kids


Thank you! And I kept my kids home second half because I REALLY like them bh! And I was able to take off from work so we had a really good time.

Again it’s the fasting, or on yt trying to prep food, and not being able to go anywhere! the stress of buying and prepping all the food before on regular days we have very basic food and buy takeout twice a week. I bake once a week with him and the rest is just dump in the oven/ stove …
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 7:54 am
amother Peach wrote:
Also, just want to add,
I always say that yomtov is really not kid friendly, the late nights, different schedules etc etc can make it hard for them.

But over the years I’ve realised, they don’t remember the hard parts, the crying, kvetching…
They just remember the good bits.

The special yomtov pekeleh, the excitement for the new toy, the dance parties in the sukkah, the staying up late playing with cousins, the yummy dessert you only make for yomtov…

My kids don’t remember that I lay on the couch all day without energy to play with them when they were little, they like to laugh with me how I prepare over stuffed snack bags for Yom Kippur and feed the little kids more on YK than any other day 😂
m

My two year old was so sad after rh. We won’t be going out for any night meals sukkos. Some kids are more sensitive than others.

I guess I also wonder what’s in it for me? Just more and more hard work and exhaustion.
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amother
Burntblack


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 8:52 am
Little kids this is my rosh hashana, yom kipper schedule. And a loose schedule of what my yom kipper will look like.

7:00 everyone Gets up dressed,feed baby
7:30Breakfast cereal and milk, fruit like peaches and bananas, kugle left on hot plate overnight.
8:00Say brach a on tzitzis clean up table than everyone gets homemade cake cake
8:15-840 I play alongside my kids they get my full attention. I find my kids best games are duplo and house with dolls. I start the game off to help them along with their imagination
8:40 to as long as they play nice, also take care of baby. When we are done everyone gets a small Nosh.
We clean up the toys and everyone must go to the bathroom. Kid who clean up gets to chose a book
10:30we go to the park. I mostly push the kids on the swings. We stay until someone has to go to the bathroom also we take along cut up apples. Baby naps in carriage. (I take sandwiches in case we stay long)
We come back and kids get the packed sandwiches,yogurt and gefilta fish and salmon. Cold noodles. American cheese . Challah and dips also an option
After eating I pull out a bunch of different level-age puzzles and kids take turns with the puzzles. Usually a little involved and busy with youngest then.
Bathroom time
We try to pass time until about 3:30 back outside to the park. Usually alot of kids then. I tell my kids now it's time to go on the slide I try to get in some davening in. While they play sometimes themselves sometimes with me. I take along snacks and Nosh and drinks-hoping not to many sips so we don't need a bathroom break
After the park is my kids supper Which is cholent, cold cut, cut up vegetables.
It's cocoo hour after dinner no matter what we do. This is when a new toy comes out whoever is in pajamas, it not bedtime yet. But it reminds my kids it's the end of the day. And I don't have to fight for pajamas. Or we play on bikes in front of the house-as long as it's not electric I turn a blind eye at anything muktzah. I may read extra books make up games it hard when fasting but it is what it is.
I don't go to shul, try to daven the most I could. After the kids are in bed at least I could daven the last tefillah.

*Challah and honey always avaifor my kids. If possible I would get together with another family at the park. Husband comes home to help or sleep during his break.
* I have to give my kids quality play time if I expect them to play on their own. Once they are involved in a game. I don't interrupt. Q
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amother
Skyblue


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 9:01 am
miami85 wrote:
On Yom Kippur can you play outside? Do you have an eruv where you live? Can you go for walks? Can you do melatonin for bedtime for your eldest? That might be the easiest first step to help him get into a routine and settle down. He sounds like he needs some kind of behavioral intervention/OT possibly ADHD down the road. I used to be anti-medication, until I had a child who needed it and now it's the best thing because it allows him to be his best and fewer frustration=fewer altercations=better relationship.

No 3x potching on one day will not become "abuse"--if it stays at that. 4-year olds are starting to become accountable for their actions. I wouldn't potch for something "beyond his self-control"--but something along the lines of "purposeful defiance" and only as a last resort. Meaning you've warned, you've tried other methods but if he still looks you in the eye and does what you said not to--then that's justifiable. You need to be the parent and set the boundary of "Mommy said so".

My teaching/parenting mantra is "we are hockey goalies"--a GOOD hockey goalie has an above 90% save percentage. He will let things in, but as long as over 90% of the pucks stay out the team has a chance to win. You won't win every battle, and yom tov season is a challenge. Hashem wants you to win 90% of your battles. Take each "puck" as it comes.


Strongly disagree with this.

Potching 3 times a day is abusive parenting.

If you are resorting to that you must reach out for help parenting wise. There are lots of resources nowadays for better tools and techniques.

Please don’t rationalize potching especially at that frequency.
You are hurting your children albeit unintentionally.
Hatzlacha!
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 20 2023, 9:15 am
amother Skyblue wrote:
Strongly disagree with this.

Potching 3 times a day is abusive parenting.

If you are resorting to that you must reach out for help parenting wise. There is lots of resources nowadays for better tools and techniques.

Please don’t rationalize potching especially at that frequency.
You are hurting your children albeit unintentionally.
Hatzlacha!


It was 3x on one day- during one incident when he was pulling my hair and would not let go. We are reaching out to help because he is having a hard time.
What would u do?

But I didn’t potch from anger, I potched to get him off me.
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