I'm so mad. Surely this isn't right?!

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 5:37 pm

It's a long story but I'll try to keep it as short as possible. Not sure if it's in the right section either but anyway...

A few months ago we finished an extension on our house. We used a Jewish contractor, but not only Jewish, my dh knows him from their childhood (I didn't want to use him because I 'knew' it would get difficult but dh chose him to be the one, mainly due to price and he felt he could trust a fellow yid (and he's right to a point)

You get what you pay for is appropriate here. His workers weren't so good at what they did. We ran into plenty issues but all was ok and we held back a small amount of the last bit of what we owed him. We gave him a gift (some things are far from perfect but my dh worked out that the amount that we owe him, didn't amount to the last finishing touches of work, adding in all that was damaged in the process as well we decided we we're holding back on that last amount.

Fast forward a couple of months (as far as we were both concerned we were done with each other, and parted ways on a good note bc my dh avoids confrontation) a new small side roof that his workers built from scratch was leaking (I told him many months ago that it was, but they checked it again and they said no it's fine) well it wasn't and it got way worse with time. I have proof of messages telling him I want him to get professional roofers like who did the main large roof to sort it but he just got his garbage workers to redo it 3 times!! This was a big problem that we had to tell him about and it shouldve been done right from the start.

Today they finally came to fix it (please note that the new ceiling in the kitchen has now got wet stains on the newly painted ceiling!,) hopefully it's all good now iyH but the contractor has the audacity to demand the rest of the money that we owe him!! If this roof would've been OK from the start we would've been well done with him by now.

Am I right to be angry?! Your thoughts please?

He said he'll do the last finishes that we want, but I'm so so fed up of the workers that I messaged him today saying not to send them yet. But my dh said he wants the money before Yt. It doesn't seem fair Sad

amother

Raspberry

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 5:51 pm

With money, it just seems “might is right”. Some contractors can be such a nightmare.

amother

Cappuccino

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 5:52 pm

Of course you have a right to be mad.
The money is something for a Rav to deal with.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 5:57 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Of course you have a right to be mad.
The money is something for a Rav to deal with.

My dh won't take it to a Rav, and definitely not beis din. I can maybe copy and paste this to our Rav but I'll see. Dh already said he's keeping me out of it now because I get really stressed about it (I do, but I still think I have a right to be mad) we really don't have the money now. We need to first pay tuition to our son's new yeshiva. I told dh he needs to make that a priority but he just said don't worry im sorting it out, you don't need to worry....

tigerwife

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:04 pm

I understand why you’re mad about the shoddy work but you owe him money. Did you discuss that you wanted a discount because of damages? Or did you just withhold as a “punishment” with no communication (which your husband is calling “confrontation”)?

doodlesmom

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:06 pm

If he finishes all he promised then you need to pay…otherwise….

amother

Cappuccino

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:06 pm

Not telling you to go to Bais Din. I'm just saying that money issues are always sticky and it's good to have a Rav in the picture.
Don't go behind your husband's back though.
If you do send it to your Rav, don't do anything without your husband knowing. Trust me, I did that with something else and it didn't work out so well.

Laiya

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:13 pm

tigerwife wrote:

This.

He did the work, and you had an agreement. You tried to bargain him down because you weren't happy, but he didn't agree.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:18 pm

tigerwife wrote:

I think dh just withheld it, but this was a while ago and it was only brought up again because of the leaking roof. The day he gets it fixed (it's been leaking for a while btw) he asks for money. I think it's really not a nice thing to do!

He should be apologising to us, 'paying us' by taking money off the amount owed because of all the agro this one small side roof has caused!!

Hours workers were so bad, that they even cut out a piece of the ceiling (after completion) to prove to me that it wasn't leaking. So I was right all along and he should've got a professional roofer to sort out like I had asked him to)

Only now he got the roofers in, and wants us to pay for them (technically, that's how it feels) but it should've been done properly the first time, about 6 months ago now.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:22 pm

Laiya wrote:

This.

He did the work, and you had an agreement. You tried to bargain him down because you weren't happy, but he didn't agree.

I think he's got a cheek to ask for the money on the day that the shoddy roof got fixed!! As if he did us a huge favour. He told my dh how they did something amazing with it etc, and they put this in and that in. Whatever, the point is that these guys should've done it in the first place,like I asked.
Its more the principal for me as well I'm so angry that he specifically wants the money now. He thanked us for the gift, he put up a completed by 'company name) sign outside our house. As far as we were both concerned we were both happy and calling it quits. Now the drama and nightmare starts again. I've so had enough of it all.

amother

Clover

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:29 pm

You can’t just withhold payment.
I know what it feels like, we had plenty of trouble with our contractor as well. It’s extremely important to have a clearly spelled out contract from the start, unfortunately there’s no such thing as trust, even with a yid. It’s also important to get references about the quality of his work before signing the contract.
But if he did the work, he gets paid. Even if it was shoddy. That’s the nature of business.

Edit: the gift is irrelevant. It’s not payment. It’s an extra that you chose to give him.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:38 pm

amother Clover wrote:

I get that, but we paid for this roof to be done months ago already! It just feels wrong of him to ask for payment SPECIFICALLY TODAY when technically we already paid for this roof to be completed.
A lot of the damage they caused can't be undone with sending his workers for longer. Some of it is permanent damage because his workers didn't care about our stuff. They didn't bother protecting anything. I told them to, they didn't listen. My bath is ruined, scratched all over, marks all over. It never looks clean like it used to. I'm still really upset about it....
It said on his contract 'protect bath' because I was very passionate about it but they didn't bother. They used a very thin sheets with tiny holes all over. Didn't do a thing.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:39 pm

amother Clover wrote:

Oh I know that about the gift, but that was the closing thing for both of us. He didn't say hey we're not done yet, why you gifting us....it was a 'goodbye' thing.

amother

Foxglove

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:45 pm

You can't just decide to withhold money you owe him. Even if they did a shoddy job. It doesn't work like that. You knew they're cheap going in. You said that you got what you paid for, you need to pay up.
Of course he's right to demand you to pay him up.

amother

Carnation

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:54 pm

You are right to be frustrated, but wrong to withhold the money. Unless he agrees that you should pay less because of all the problems that happened. But he didn't. He asked for the money you owe him, and you should pay. That's just my opinion, nothing to do with halacha. If you want halacha, ask your Rav.

amother

Nemesia

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 6:56 pm

I agree. You can't just not pay without saying anything. You can send him an email with all the damages written down (such as the bathtub etc) and ask for a refund. But you can't just not pay.

This is why I only hire contractors who have excellent reviews online. You can't mix business with charity.

amother

Starflower

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 7:05 pm

If you're not willing to go to BD then you need to give him the money he wants. It's one or the other.

It's not right but if your husband isn't willing to deal with it and you're not willing to deal with it on your own then there's nothing you can really do.

amother

Hibiscus

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 7:07 pm

I think your husband is right, everyone involved, most of all you, will be best off if you stay out of it and let him deal with it. Let go and let DH. He offered to do so.

amother

Starflower

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 7:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

Between then and now labor costs went up, a lot. Of course he wants the money. He needs to pay them. I realize you want him to eat the loss but he's not going to do that graciously.

amother

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 7:09 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

My dh is paying up, but it's me who is very frustrated with the contractor, and thinks he has a cheek to ask for the money, only now that this roof was fixed. I was in the right all along with this roof. No apology, he just wants thanking, and to be paid. It's not a nice attitude in my opinion.

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