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amother
Peru
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 Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:18 am
OP, you sound well-intentioned and like you love your children and want what's best for them. You seem to have a thought out approach to how your parent. However, your post describing your method of potching was a bit chilling to read. It sounded calculated and scary. Nobody's method of parenting is the holy grail - not even yours. Everybody does their best with the tools at their disposal and tries to love their kids up so they always feel safe and secure. There are resources from experts including child psychologists, mechanchim, rabbanim, etc that can redirect your perspective. You believe the world will shift back to your view soon. I believe there is a good reason the world has shifted away from it.
Yes, there are other bad ways to parent. There are other things that don't involve potching that will still damage your children or create unhappiness in your home. That doesn't therefore mean that potching is the answer.
Also, like another poster pointed out, your method of "training" your kids is Pavlovian. Kids don't need to be rewarded and punished for whether or not they know Mommy loves them. They should know it from the way you interact with them and how you talk to them all the time.
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BrisketBoss
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:25 am
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I think OP was hinting at the security of knowing your parents mean what they say and can handle your behavior calmly and confidently. This is very important, but I think it's too bad when parents need to use crutches like potching and counting to 3 in order to feel this well enough to sell it.
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Giraffe
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:29 am
This thread and others like it reignited my violent thoughts towards my children.
I was so obedient to my parents but nothing I did was ever good enough. I got hit for every little thing anyway, even for things I did not do.
No therapy will not help me. Therapy will either take my children away with CPS or give me the so call “non potching” techniques. As we know this is way too soft and the reason why society is horrible now. Why would I care to listen to therapists anyway.
I have no one to turn to.
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giftedmom
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:39 am
| amother OP wrote: | I get asked that all the time. How do I get my kids to listen to me.
From when they are about 18months I train them, with love. I teach them that I’m their mommy and Hashem gave me the job of taking care of you, making sure your safe and it’s your job to listen. And we practice. Again and again. And yes they test. And then I put them in quiet time and practice again when they are ready. And I reward them when they are doing well. They love it bc it’s a game. But then for real life they were trained.
They know they can always ask politely if it doesn’t work for them. Like if I tell them to come they can say, mommy I know you wanted me to come- I’m in the middle of a game, is that ok? As long as they are respectful they can def have their own wants met too. |
Babies aren’t puppies
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amother
Goldenrod
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:39 am
| amother OP wrote: | Hi, I’m back.
A few fast pointers. To the lady that said she knows me. No. Sorry, wrong person. From what you wrote it’s clear you don’t know me. Several inaccuracies so you’re obviously mistaken. One of which, I ask my mom plenty of chinuch questions and we discuss potching. We’re of the same mind.
To all the women praying for my sad, nebach, abused children -thanks. My kids are super happy, well rounded, trouble-making cuties. My home is happy and warm. They get cuddled, tickled, told they are loved endlessly. I cherish them and know they are each a gift from Hashem.
They know they were entrusted in me to raise them, love them and teach them how to be a mentch.
To all those sending me to lifelong therapy, thanks for that too. I actually have very little drama in my life bh. I have an incredible marriage that I’ve worked very hard on. I have very good friendships and I’m emotionally in-tuned. I put a lot of work in my parenting, and bh my kids feel connected to me and come to me when they’re troubled.
Unlike some of the posters want to believe, potching isn’t my only parenting method.
I actually have lots of friends who see how my kids are happy, well rounded and respectful to me and their teachers and I’ve been asked for advice so many more times then I can count.
I’m not trying to convince people to patch their kids. I do believe theres a fine line in how to do it well. All I’m saying is -potching a kid can be very beneficial and does not need to damage them.
I think that the alternative that many people think is better, can be way more harmful.
Eg. holding down a thrashing child. Imagine a mom who’s dysregulated doing that. I could see that leading to trauma of feeling suffocated, trapped and abused.
Eg. no potch but the emotional manipulation and damage is clear every way the kid turns.
Eg. No potch bc that’s so wrong and harmful but then the mom gets so mad at a kid she smacks him with real anger and then breaks down and needs the kid to forgive her. THAT is so heavy for a kid to manage.
The only reason I started this thread was to give people less of a black and white view on potching. Potching does not need to equal abuse. It can be such a good way of grounding a child bringing them out of their aggravated state and making them feel safe, that they have a parent in charge and they’re not alone. That is a comforting feeling for a child. To know they have a parent in charge.
If you have a very narrow view you probably won’t be able to comprehend that. But I have a strong feeling that give another couple of years and modern parenting will take a turn and see the benefits.
Anyway. I’m out. I didnt start this to make machlokes with yidden. That wasn’t my intent. I was just trying to open people’s minds so that people would be more open and accepting of others. |
It’s quite troubling that you are going against the advice of all contemporary chinuch and education specialists, and are doing so proudly.
There is no justification available for the calculated abuse of your children (yes, hitting is abuse).
The fact that people ask you for advice is probably troubling, your children are probably too afraid to engage in normal and age-appropriate misbehavior and are therefore conditioned to behave well. That’s not a good thing.
Another thing, abuse in childhood brings a strong pain that is raw many years later. Read accounts of kids who were abused and went otd, and you hear how strong the pain is. Think carefully if you want to go against the pervasive chinuch ideals today all in the name of preserving your ego. Because that’s what it’s about; we see right through you.
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Lovable
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:44 am
| amother Pansy wrote: | | Anyone who doesn't understand how you can get obedience without potching should watch SuperNanny. |
Exactly.
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giftedmom
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:45 am
| amother Pansy wrote: | | Anyone who doesn't understand how you can get obedience without potching should watch SuperNanny. |
That show is so triggering
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giftedmom
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:48 am
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I honestly don’t know why I’m still checking this thread because ops posts are giving me the heebie jeebies. Christian parenting show vibes. You know those perfect family YouTube channels with the smiling matching kids that turn out to be horribly abusive.
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BrisketBoss
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:50 am
| amother Pansy wrote: | | Anyone who doesn't understand how you can get obedience without potching should watch SuperNanny. |
She just uses time outs instead, not that much better. The work of good parenting wouldn't make for such interesting TV. Behaviorism can win you some very short term results. Also she gets the families where anyone could do a better job. Again--TV.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 8:08 am
| amother Opal wrote: | This post just confirmed my suspicions
You seem to think you have the greatest marriage, the greatest chinuch approaches, you have the most amazing friends and the most well rounded kids.
You seem to think you are perfect! Guess what, none of us are.
So maybe this potching issue is the thing you need to work on. Why call the rest of us narrow minded, when you might be it?
And where doe machlokes come in here? If someone is making you aware of something you mi9ght be doing wrong, and voicing their thoughts on it, that does not equal machlokes. It wont hurt you to listen and learn
I promise |
Leave her alone. She seems to know what she's doing. I know she said AMA, but honestly she's not beating her kids up.
She's doing it in a thought out controlled manner.
What gives anyone the right to predict that her kids are going to cut her off, going to need life long therapy etc
Noone is a perfect parent but we all try our best.
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NechaMom
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 8:24 am
| giftedmom wrote: | | I honestly don’t know why I’m still checking this thread because ops posts are giving me the heebie jeebies. Christian parenting show vibes. You know those perfect family YouTube channels with the smiling matching kids that turn out to be horribly abusive. |
I don’t know why I checked out this thread again either. I already HIT the roof yesterday with the hitting threads. But I agree with your post.
I also want to tell op that you sound so smart and collected. Very logical and thought out. For this reason I’d think you’re open minded enough to listen to what others are saying. Maybe, just maybe, there is another way? Maybe you did err in this one place and even though you’re an amazing mom with amazing well behaved kids you need to make sure that what you’re doing is healthy emotionally. Our end goal is not a bunch of trained puppies or horses. We need emotionally healthy kids who will grow up to be emotionally healthy adults. Those adults should raise their kids without hitting as well. All I ask of you is use your seichel that Hashem granted you and learn and explore. Find out if what you’re doing is right and healthy. Be open to hearing that maybe little things need to change for the sake of your kids’ emotional health. Discuss with an unbiased expert (not your mom who hit you and is on the same page) what your method is and ask her if it’s balanced and healthy. Bottom line, don’t be rigid with your one single method. We are all on a journey. We keep learning and upgrading our tool box. We nosh from everyone and keep an open mind that maybe, just maybe, someone knows something that I don’t. And if 50 women are telling you that something seems unhealthy here maybe there is some truth to it. You don’t need to reply to me or to anyone. It’s just something to think about.
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NechaMom
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 8:30 am
| Giraffe wrote: | This thread and others like it reignited my violent thoughts towards my children.
I was so obedient to my parents but nothing I did was ever good enough. I got hit for every little thing anyway, even for things I did not do.
No therapy will not help me. Therapy will either take my children away with CPS or give me the so call “non potching” techniques. As we know this is way too soft and the reason why society is horrible now. Why would I care to listen to therapists anyway.
I have no one to turn to. |
You need to heal your inner child before focusing on what to do with your own kids. Hugs!
You say a therapist won’t help you because you’re afraid she won’t approve your chinuch. How about starting with therapy for YOU and YOUR pain? Not regarding your kids.
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amother
Pansy
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:30 am
My opinion on why there is a small group of people who were potched as children and either appreciate it or say "didn't bother me/hurt my relationship with parent":
1. If DH beats you bc you didn't make him a sandwich on time, you will almost surely despise him and hopefully cut off contact.
2. If you accidentally consume LSD and are hallucinating, and DH punches you in the face to keep you from harming yourself, and when you come to your senses you have a black eye, you'd probably be like "WT* DH, why couldn't you have just held me, why couldn't you have even tied me up, or called an ambulance or something, why did you have to punch me???!" It may or may not cause serious harm to your relationship depending on your personality, whether you had a previous loving relationship and this came out of nowhere, whether he says "sorry, I freaked out and it was the only thing I thought of in the heat of the moment because I was in the same situation and someone did that to me", etc. Anyway, wouldn't feel as bad as case #1.
3. If you were literally on fire and DH beat you to put out the fire, you'd almost certainly be grateful.
So to me that proves that it's not the beating itself, but whether or not the person doing and the person receiving the beating actually believed it was for the person receiving the beating's best interest.
That's why back in the 50's, other discipline methods were basically unheard of, so most kids felt like #2 about being physically disciplined, and don't hold much, if any of a grudge against their parents. But today when it's done, kids feel like #1. Few people ever feel like it's #3 but I guess there are a few.
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Giraffe
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 3:09 pm
| amother Quince wrote: | I used to do the same thing and feel just like you do.
I found someone that helped me.
No I was not reported to cps.
I was met with the love and compassion that I deserved.
I still have sadness about how I was raised and how I raised my children.
I still have a lot of grief around that but with support I am able to process and live a better life.
I am able to give my children the mother that they deserve.
I am able to make repairs with them. Slowly.
Its humbling.
At first it feels like its much harder than potching away but slowly you realize the potching was coming from ego ego ego.
Working on myself was super humbling.
If you want I can give you the person that helped me. |
Sure you can send the name of the person who helped you but do keep in mind that I had bad experience with therapy since it was shoved down my throat as a teen. It was just to force me to talk for the sake of talking. It worsened my relationship with my parents as a result of wrong lessons and advise and I do not like the idea of therapy to heal from therapy. I have tons of resentment with therapy in general.
I had to do tons of pulling myself by the bootstraps to get where I am today no thanks to the so called help.
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