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Situation in israel
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Dec 03 2023, 8:35 pm
My daughter was at a seminary open house earlier, the woman was asked what is with the situation (my daughter thought the questioner meant what is the seminary doing in such a matzav). The answer was so flippant- the war is not in j-m, nothing has changed there, it is all in hashem's hands, more worried being in the USA.....
I feel like the right answer to make me want to entrust my daughter to her is - we asses every situation carefully and take precautions when needed. We are in touch with authorities etc.....
Am I wrong to think she doesn't know what she is doing???!!!
Is that how all sems are?
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Sun, Dec 03 2023, 8:38 pm
It sounds like she has been repeatedly answering this for many weeks now so maybe lost her sensitivity at the moment she answered.

I would definitely speak to mothers of girls there now to see how its been.
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amother
Lotus


 

Post Sun, Dec 03 2023, 8:45 pm
amother OP wrote:
My daughter was at a seminary open house earlier, the woman was asked what is with the situation (my daughter thought the questioner meant what is the seminary doing in such a matzav). The answer was so flippant- the war is not in j-m, nothing has changed there, it is all in hashem's hands, more worried being in the USA.....
I feel like the right answer to make me want to entrust my daughter to her is - we asses every situation carefully and take precautions when needed. We are in touch with authorities etc.....
Am I wrong to think she doesn't know what she is doing???!!!
Is that how all sems are?


For an Israeli this is the right answer. You’re in the USA so you don’t relate to the response. Seminaries in yerushalayim are learning normally but they’ve all added extra learning and davening and chesed hours. Everything is in Hashem’s hands and it can change at the drop of a dime. The world could go to war with Yemen. We could go into Lebanon. We don’t know literally 20 seconds from now so we don’t know, we’re Jews and we simply adjust as the times require of us. That’s the message of the war, we don’t control it. Today, they’re not in yerushalayim so we’ll continue. Tomorrow, only Gd knows. Those of us here fear far more for your safety in the States than those of us here. This is the reality here. She could have been more patient but I’m sure she tells this to her current parents every day for almost 60 days now.
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amother
DarkMagenta


 

Post Sun, Dec 03 2023, 8:56 pm
amother Lotus wrote:
For an Israeli this is the right answer. You’re in the USA so you don’t relate to the response. Seminaries in yerushalayim are learning normally but they’ve all added extra learning and davening and chesed hours. Everything is in Hashem’s hands and it can change at the drop of a dime. The world could go to war with Yemen. We could go into Lebanon. We don’t know literally 20 seconds from now so we don’t know, we’re Jews and we simply adjust as the times require of us. That’s the message of the war, we don’t control it. Today, they’re not in yerushalayim so we’ll continue. Tomorrow, only Gd knows. Those of us here fear far more for your safety in the States than those of us here. This is the reality here. She could have been more patient but I’m sure she tells this to her current parents every day for almost 60 days now.


I definitely notice that as well. Those in Israel are much more worried about antisemitism in chul than about a war taking place in their own country. It’s called cognitive dissonance. Look it up. Better yet - the seminary mechanechet giving the flippant answers should look it up.
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amother
Snowdrop


 

Post Sun, Dec 03 2023, 9:17 pm
amother Lotus wrote:
For an Israeli this is the right answer. You’re in the USA so you don’t relate to the response. Seminaries in yerushalayim are learning normally but they’ve all added extra learning and davening and chesed hours. Everything is in Hashem’s hands and it can change at the drop of a dime. The world could go to war with Yemen. We could go into Lebanon. We don’t know literally 20 seconds from now so we don’t know, we’re Jews and we simply adjust as the times require of us. That’s the message of the war, we don’t control it. Today, they’re not in yerushalayim so we’ll continue. Tomorrow, only Gd knows. Those of us here fear far more for your safety in the States than those of us here. This is the reality here. She could have been more patient but I’m sure she tells this to her current parents every day for almost 60 days now.

The principal should understand she's talking to Americans and not fellow Israelis and address their concerns instead of disregarding them.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:04 am
So are other mothers ok with the hanhala of the potential seminaries taking this attitude?
I was in seminary in 2002 at he height of intefada. We were not allowed to take busses, go to the shul etc. I felt like they tried to be on top of the situation. Is that still the case?
What did seminaries do this year l'maasah after the initial attack?
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Success10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:23 am
amother OP wrote:
So are other mothers ok with the hanhala of the potential seminaries taking this attitude?
I was in seminary in 2002 at he height of intefada. We were not allowed to take busses, go to the shul etc. I felt like they tried to be on top of the situation. Is that still the case?
What did seminaries do this year l'maasah after the initial attack?


This is not the intifada. BTW, I was also in sem in 2002. We took buses and went to stores.
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:31 am
OP, as a mother of a 12th grader, I get you.
I've been to some open houses and compared with friends and heard my daughter talking to her friends.

Some seminaries are very flippant "the war is over in Yerushalayim, rammings, stabbings, shootings are rare, America is way worse".
Maybe objectively it's true.
But if you're asking me for 30k upfront, non-refundable even if the situation gets more uncomfortable to send my 18 year old to learn by you, can you at least share what hishtadlus you do to keep my girls safe

Other seminaries talked about how they rent a bus to the Kosel every other week so the girls don't go themselves, the alert system they use, the boundaries that the girls have in place.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:32 am
amother OP wrote:
So are other mothers ok with the hanhala of the potential seminaries taking this attitude?
I was in seminary in 2002 at he height of intefada. We were not allowed to take busses, go to the shul etc. I felt like they tried to be on top of the situation. Is that still the case?
What did seminaries do this year l'maasah after the initial attack?


The intifada was very very different than the current situation.

And to answer the amother previously:
Quote:
definitely notice that as well. Those in Israel are much more worried about antisemitism in chul than about a war taking place in their own country. It’s called cognitive dissonance. Look it up. Better yet - the seminary mechanechet giving the flippant answers should look it up.


I do not have cognitive dissonance. Have you resorted to using insults/medical & mental terminology to label those who are different from you because you refuse to see that the land of Eretz Yisrael gives us Emunah?? How we see the yad Hashem so clearly??
I just heard someone say how a chiloni yelled at her son for talking about the war: he said "There is no Chamas! There is no Tzahal! It is all yad Hashem! You as a yeshiva bochur should be the first to see that!!"

I agree with him, all we see here is how Hashem is handling the playing field so carefully. This is not cognitive dissonance.

To the OP, I do understand how you as a mother are nervous about your daughters safety! I would love to reassure you that she's safe- but that is entirely in Hashems hand (whether in E"Y or in Chu"l) instead I wish you the menuchas hanefesh to know that wherever she is- she's in Hashems hands.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:35 am
I'd like to add:
It's not only Israelis that feel that Israel is safer now. I have friends and relatives all over the US (east and west coast) who have said that they would feel way safer in Israel than where they are right now
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:47 am
amother Slateblue wrote:
I'd like to add:
It's not only Israelis that feel that Israel is safer now. I have friends and relatives all over the US (east and west coast) who have said that they would feel way safer in Israel than where they are right now


You're missing the point.
The point is not whether Israel is objectively safer or not, whether people feel safer in Israel or not or the bitachon.

The point is that if I choose to send my child to seminary, I expect there to be an understanding that these are kids, not Israeli born. They don't have the instincts that Israeli kids have. They don't speak the language. They have nervous parents on the other side of the ocean.
The schools should be addressing these concerns, the same way they address academics and dorm life.

And a seminary who cannot express their safety plan, or steps they took at the beginning concerns me. I worry that maybe this hanhala is not a good place to send my American students with American experiences and American anxieties. Maybe the culture gulf is just too wide.

At least that is my concern, and that is what I'm reading into OP.
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amother
Snowdrop


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:51 am
amother OP wrote:
So are other mothers ok with the hanhala of the potential seminaries taking this attitude?
I was in seminary in 2002 at he height of intefada. We were not allowed to take busses, go to the shul etc. I felt like they tried to be on top of the situation. Is that still the case?
What did seminaries do this year l'maasah after the initial attack?

My daughter is in Israel now and so are kids of my many friends.
More MO seminaries are very on top and communicative. Some BY sems are and others - aren't. Some take the road of this principal from your open house.
Otoh, this war will last quite a while. Girls can't stay indoors the whole year.
Thankfully, Yerushalayim IS pretty safe from what I hear. May it continue to be and may this war end very soon with our victory and all hostages and soldiers back alive and well!
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:55 am
amother Cappuccino wrote:
You're missing the point.
The point is not whether Israel is objectively safer or not, whether people feel safer in Israel or not or the bitachon.

The point is that if I choose to send my child to seminary, I expect there to be an understanding that these are kids, not Israeli born. They don't have the instincts that Israeli kids have. They don't speak the language. They have nervous parents on the other side of the ocean.
The schools should be addressing these concerns, the same way they address academics and dorm life.

And a seminary who cannot express their safety plan, or steps they took at the beginning concerns me. I worry that maybe this hanhala is not a good place to send my American students with American experiences and American anxieties. Maybe the culture gulf is just too wide.

At least that is my concern, and that is what I'm reading into OP.


I did not miss the point. Thank you very much.
I expressed my empathy for the OP.
As I pointed out: this is not the intifada, there is no active threat against Jerusalem at this time.
At this time: Northern Gaza has been deeply invaded by the IDF, the IDF has large forces protecting the northern border. The IDF and government are fully aware and are acting as best as they can on threats concerning other countries involvement.
Yes we are davening, yes we understand that Hashem needs more from us now! No, this does not mean that seminary girls need more protection/isolation from the city.

Edit: I attended an American seminary as an American girl. I am now raising my children as Israelis.
I do not see the difference. In fact, most Israelis do not know what to do in a situation like this (yes I have talked to many Israelis at different ages/stages and walks of life).
I see the American seminary girls around (host them, they do chessed for me) they do not seem as immature as you are describing. They seem to have their heads on straight and know how to act in these situations.
It's possible they come back to you as a mother and express fears that they don't express to us (or try to act macho to you) but it doesn't seem like they are acting that way here...
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 5:55 am
thank you amother cappuccino, I think you are expressing my sentiment exactly much better than I was.

can you share which seminaries you have heard address these concerns appropriately? Thanks
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 6:08 am
amother OP wrote:
thank you amother cappuccino, I think you are expressing my sentiment exactly much better than I was.

can you share which seminaries you have heard address these concerns appropriately? Thanks


The 1 seminary that I was most impressed with was Zimras. Could be there are more, but I don't know all my friends and daughters friends seminaries by name.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 6:29 am
amother Cappuccino wrote:
You're missing the point.
The point is not whether Israel is objectively safer or not, whether people feel safer in Israel or not or the bitachon.

The point is that if I choose to send my child to seminary, I expect there to be an understanding that these are kids, not Israeli born. They don't have the instincts that Israeli kids have. They don't speak the language. They have nervous parents on the other side of the ocean.
The schools should be addressing these concerns, the same way they address academics and dorm life.

And a seminary who cannot express their safety plan, or steps they took at the beginning concerns me. I worry that maybe this hanhala is not a good place to send my American students with American experiences and American anxieties. Maybe the culture gulf is just too wide.

At least that is my concern, and that is what I'm reading into OP.

Question: What special instincts do Israeli born kids have that American girls apparently lack?
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 6:36 am
amother Slateblue wrote:
I did not miss the point. Thank you very much.
I expressed my empathy for the OP.
As I pointed out: this is not the intifada, there is no active threat against Jerusalem at this time.
At this time: Northern Gaza has been deeply invaded by the IDF, the IDF has large forces protecting the northern border. The IDF and government are fully aware and are acting as best as they can on threats concerning other countries involvement.
Yes we are davening, yes we understand that Hashem needs more from us now! No, this does not mean that seminary girls need more protection/isolation from the city.

Edit: I attended an American seminary as an American girl. I am now raising my children as Israelis.
I do not see the difference. In fact, most Israelis do not know what to do in a situation like this (yes I have talked to many Israelis at different ages/stages and walks of life).
I see the American seminary girls around (host them, they do chessed for me) they do not seem as immature as you are describing. They seem to have their heads on straight and know how to act in these situations.
It's possible they come back to you as a mother and express fears that they don't express to us (or try to act macho to you) but it doesn't seem like they are acting that way here...


There's two different conversations at play.
Whether there's actual danger, etc.
And the schools reactions in the past and their plan on paper if things chv change

We are spending a lot of money to send our children (even if they act all mature and grown up) and we want to know what the schools safety plan is.

If I went to an open house and asked about the process if my child got sick, and the principal gave a lecture on emunah and davening and iyh they shouldn't get sick, I'd have the same reaction. In that I'd be concerned about the ability for this school to relate to my children and keep them safe to the best of their hishtadlus.


At an open house, when a mother asks about the "situation", we want to hear what steps were taken 8 weeks ago, we want to hear that they're in communication with government agencies, that they're adjusting trips accordingly, that they have a call or text alert system in place just in case.

Look, if we're choosing to send our girls, we know it's not an actively dangerous situation. But don't turn us into bad people with no emunah because we want to know the safety plan in case it TURNS dangerous (chv) before plunking down 30k upfront non-refundable.
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amother
DarkMagenta


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 6:38 am
amother Slateblue wrote:
I do not have cognitive dissonance. Have you resorted to using insults/medical & mental terminology to label those who are different from you because you refuse to see that the land of Eretz Yisrael gives us Emunah?? How we see the yad Hashem so clearly??
I just heard someone say how a chiloni yelled at her son for talking about the war: he said "There is no Chamas! There is no Tzahal! It is all yad Hashem! You as a yeshiva bochur should be the first to see that!!"

I agree with him, all we see here is how Hashem is handling the playing field so carefully. This is not cognitive dissonance.

To the OP, I do understand how you as a mother are nervous about your daughters safety! I would love to reassure you that she's safe- but that is entirely in Hashems hand (whether in E"Y or in Chu"l) instead I wish you the menuchas hanefesh to know that wherever she is- she's in Hashems hands.


Agreed. Hashem is handling the playing field so carefully. Every moment of our lives is guided by His hand, whether we notice it or not, wherever we are. Every person who died on Simchat Torah and every person who escaped the inferno unharmed was part of His plan. At the same time we’re responsible to do our part to protect our lives and every gift He gives us. If you can understand Yaakov being praised for crossing back to get his pachim ketanim because a tzaddik is careful with what Hashem gave him, then you can understand mothers sending their most precious gifts off to seminary and wanting to ensure they’ll be safe.
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 6:41 am
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
Question: What special instincts do Israeli born kids have that American girls apparently lack?


There's a built in awareness of being able to rate the danger that nonIsraelis don't have.
Either being terrified around any Arab or overly confident that everything is ok.
That type of thing.

And understanding the language around you well is a huge thing.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Mon, Dec 04 2023, 7:08 am
amother DarkMagenta wrote:
Agreed. Hashem is handling the playing field so carefully. Every moment of our lives is guided by His hand, whether we notice it or not, wherever we are. Every person who died on Simchat Torah and every person who escaped the inferno unharmed was part of His plan. At the same time we’re responsible to do our part to protect our lives and every gift He gives us. If you can understand Yaakov being praised for crossing back to get his pachim ketanim because a tzaddik is careful with what Hashem gave him, then you can understand mothers sending their most precious gifts off to seminary and wanting to ensure they’ll be safe.


Read the rest of my post:)
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