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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach
If youre being supported finacially by one side
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amother
Carnation


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:46 am
amother Charcoal wrote:
If they didn't have middos they would tell op to stay by them the whole yom tov. They support op fully I doubt they have no middos. Maybe op has no middos and isn't appreciative of all her in laws do. Or maybe it's just a miscommunication and if op would ask if she can go one year to her parents they would allow it.


They don’t have good middos. To think you own someone because you help them is so disgusting. It’s a terrible middah and it’s time we started addressing it. Help your kids because you love them or want them to have an easier life, don’t give them money to buy their time and loyalty. Which is what way too many parents do. And yes it is selfish and bad middos. Just because kids should appreciate being helped, doesn’t mean the parents get to demand things.
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Ima_Shelli




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:50 am
notshanarishona wrote:
Yes I think whoever pays for the tickets you come visit them at their preferred timing


This. Harsh reality, but this.
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amother
Ballota


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:56 am
amother Carnation wrote:
They don’t have good middos. To think you own someone because you help them is so disgusting. It’s a terrible middah and it’s time we started addressing it. Help your kids because you love them or want them to have an easier life, don’t give them money to buy their time and loyalty. Which is what way too many parents do. And yes it is selfish and bad middos. Just because kids should appreciate being helped, doesn’t mean the parents get to demand things.


I don't get these posts. What has inviting someone for Yom Tov do do with owning them?

Again, if they didn't invite them for Yom Tov, OP would be making her own Yom Tov in Israel. And then her parents wouldn't see her at all.
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amother
Charcoal


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:57 am
amother Carnation wrote:
They don’t have good middos. To think you own someone because you help them is so disgusting. It’s a terrible middah and it’s time we started addressing it. Help your kids because you love them or want them to have an easier life, don’t give them money to buy their time and loyalty. Which is what way too many parents do. And yes it is selfish and bad middos. Just because kids should appreciate being helped, doesn’t mean the parents get to demand things.


Who said they think they own them? They go second days to her parents. It's really not such a big deal. And they support them fully. If someone pays for your every expense and you are resentful they ask you to spend 2 days yom tov with you then that's bad middos too.
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amother
Topaz


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:59 am
amother Carnation wrote:
They don’t have good middos. To think you own someone because you help them is so disgusting. It’s a terrible middah and it’s time we started addressing it. Help your kids because you love them or want them to have an easier life, don’t give them money to buy their time and loyalty. Which is what way too many parents do. And yes it is selfish and bad middos. Just because kids should appreciate being helped, doesn’t mean the parents get to demand things.


The support is irrelevant.
I agree that parents with middos don't control their kids because of support.

But if one is paying money for something that they want, they're not selfish for having it.

If I pay $2000-$3000 for my married kids to come to me for the Seder, I don't have bad middos if I want them at my Seder.
If I buy a dress to wear to my nieces wedding, am I selfish if I tell my sister that she can wear it some other time but not at that wedding that I want to wear it to.
Even if she's sad.
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amother
Carnation


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 5:59 am
amother Ballota wrote:
I don't get these posts. What has inviting someone for Yom Tov do do with owning them?

Again, if they didn't invite them for Yom Tov, OP would be making her own Yom Tov in Israel. And then her parents wouldn't see her at all.


And that’s the bad middos. The inflated ego of without us you wouldn’t see the kids so be happy with what we throw to you. Why can’t they share and switch off? Most parents want to spend at least one year with married kids at the sedarim.
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:00 am
amother Charcoal wrote:
Who said they think they own them? They go second days to her parents. It's really not such a big deal. And they support them fully. If someone pays for your every expense and you are resentful they ask you to spend 2 days yom tov with you then that's bad middos too.

They're not the ones being resentful, the parents are hurt, and rightfully so.

It's bad middos to ignore the parents who happen not to have money. Very bad middos, IMO.
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amother
Ballota


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:01 am
Just want to add also. Just because her in laws can afford this, doesn't mean they don't work very hard to afford this lifestyle of supporting their children. They're allowed to have some of the fruits of their labor without being labelled as selfish.

Also, it's unusual that the boy's side supports the couple FULLY, usually they expect the kallahs family to contribute also. (Let's face it, usually they ask for MORE from the kallah's side) I actually think it shows middos by the fact that they didn't demand anything at all from the other side as is the societal norm to do.
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:01 am
amother Topaz wrote:
The support is irrelevant.
I agree that parents with middos don't control their kids because of support.

But if one is paying money for something that they want, they're not selfish for having it.

If I pay $2000-$3000 for my married kids to come to me for the Seder, I don't have bad middos if I want them at my Seder.
If I buy a dress to wear to my nieces wedding, am I selfish if I tell my sister that she can wear it some other time but not at that wedding that I want to wear it to.
Even if she's sad.

Yes you do. You have bad middos. Sorry, not sorry.
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amother
Charcoal


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:02 am
amother Hydrangea wrote:
They're not the ones being resentful, the parents are hurt, and rightfully so.

It's bad middos to ignore the parents who happen not to have money. Very bad middos, IMO.


Op should come back and clarify things. Did she ever ask her in laws if they mind if she goes to her parents first days?
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amother
Feverfew


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:03 am
Especially since you are a Kollel family, I think you should consult daas Torah .

This issue points out how complicated support is.
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amother
Ballota


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:03 am
amother Carnation wrote:
And that’s the bad middos. The inflated ego of without us you wouldn’t see the kids so be happy with what we throw to you. Why can’t they share and switch off? Most parents want to spend at least one year with married kids at the sedarim.


Sorry still don't get this. OP is fully welcome to make her own Yom Tov, she obviously WANTS to go to them also.

I agree that she can ask if they don't mind she goes to her parents for the seder here and there, but I love the way everyone here turns them into villains just because they are inviting them to come.
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amother
Charcoal


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:04 am
amother Hydrangea wrote:
Yes you do. You have bad middos. Sorry, not sorry.


You are blowing this up, probably because you are resentful of something in your own life. It's not bad middos to say I'm flying you in for pesach for the seder after I support you fully all year long and you can go to your parents for half of yom tov too
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amother
Ballota


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:05 am
amother Hydrangea wrote:
Yes you do. You have bad middos. Sorry, not sorry.


Lol. I assume you're a newlywed who feels entitled to the world.
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:07 am
amother Charcoal wrote:
You are blowing this up, probably because you are resentful of something in your own life. It's not bad middos to say I'm flying you in for pesach for the seder after I support you fully all year long and you can go to your parents for half of yom tov too

What am I resentful about in my own life? I clearly said that we were in this position, being disproportionately helped by one side, so I understand the dynamics.

AND we gave money to our married son and I know for a fact that the other side didn't help them at all. I didn't demand anything, nor should I.
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:07 am
amother Ballota wrote:
Lol. I assume you're a newlywed who feels entitled to the world.

I'm in my fifties, supporting a married son. Try again.

Parents help their children because they WANT to, it's ridiculous to say I'm only helping them so that I, ME, ME should benefit.

As a rational adult, I WANT my children and grandchildren to have a good relationship with both sides. And in the end, it benefits ME as well.
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amother
Cinnamon


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:08 am
I was very surprised reading the first few pages of responses.
We were supported in kollel in Israel for a number of years. My parents provided the bulk of the support, and DHs parents gave a small amount every month as well. We flew in every year for pesach. Sometimes my ILs contributed to the tickets and sometimes it was only my parents. We always switched off years of which set of parents we went to first days and which we went to second days. We didn't think "oh only this set of parents paid this time so we are only going to them."
I think normal healthy parents understand they don't own you and that you want to spend yom tov with both sets of parents/grandparents.
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amother
Topaz


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:11 am
amother Ballota wrote:
Just want to add also. Just because her in laws can afford this, doesn't mean they don't work very hard to afford this lifestyle of supporting their children. They're allowed to have some of the fruits of their labor without being labelled as selfish.

Also, it's unusual that the boy's side supports the couple FULLY, usually they expect the kallahs family to contribute also. (Let's face it, usually they ask for MORE from the kallah's side) I actually think it shows middos by the fact that they didn't demand anything at all from the other side as is the societal norm to do.


I think this is important.
Often people extend themselves financially for something that they feel is important and meaningful to them.
That's not called being selfish.

A relative of mine is a widow and all her children have large families out of the country.
She decided to dip into her savings and spend $10000 to bring in her married child and his whole family for Pesach one year so SHE wouldn't be alone. So SHE can enjoy the nachas of 7 grandchildren at her table.
Dil's mother wanted them to come to her for part of yom tov. Dil rightfully refused. Her mil paid a significant amount from savings for HER enjoyment, not to be alone while DIL's parents are enjoying the nachas that she paid for.
They knew this before they booked flights.
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amother
Amaryllis


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:18 am
amother Cinnamon wrote:
I was very surprised reading the first few pages of responses.
We were supported in kollel in Israel for a number of years. My parents provided the bulk of the support, and DHs parents gave a small amount every month as well. We flew in every year for pesach. Sometimes my ILs contributed to the tickets and sometimes it was only my parents. We always switched off years of which set of parents we went to first days and which we went to second days. We didn't think "oh only this set of parents paid this time so we are only going to them."
I think normal healthy parents understand they don't own you and that you want to spend yom tov with both sets of parents/grandparents.


Completely different circumstances here. Sounds a lot more is contributed by the other side.
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amother
Topaz


 

Post Mon, Apr 01 2024, 6:27 am
amother Hydrangea wrote:
Yes you do. You have bad middos. Sorry, not sorry.


These answers are actually shocking to me.

A person is selfish with bad middos if they prioritize spending money that they will enjoy?
Most people have a finite amount of money and therefore spend on things that are worthwhile and enjoyable for them.

I spend money on a hotel so I can go. Am I selfish with bad middos that I don't send my neighbor and her family instead

I buy a new shaitel so I can look good and feel good. Am a selfish with bad middos if I don't just hand the shaitel to my sister?

Sure, in a perfect world with unlimited money, I pay for my neighbors hotel and my sister's shaitels and fly my kids in from EY to go to their in-laws.
But most of us (even those who support) don't have unlimited finances. And they're not bad people with bad middos for spending their money in a way that's enjoyable for them- in this case having their married kids at their Seder.
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