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Can we have a closed forum for kollel wives?
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 4:46 pm
I have noticed that since I have come on Imamother every single thread where a kollel wife has asked for advice--without exception--has turned into a debate about learning in kollel.

Therefore, I think that it would be helpful to have a closed forum for those women who have husbands in kollel or in similar low-paying Klei Kodesh positions (such as kiruv (or shlichus), giving Torah classes, learning with community members, writing sefarim, etc), where we can get advice about issues from others in similar situations without having to debate the worthiness of the whole system.

Would anyone else be interested?
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 4:48 pm
Also, the Yeshivish/Litvish forum is not the place for this, since not everyone who learns in Kollel is Litvish.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 4:50 pm
I think there is a big difference between kollel lives and wives of teachers, or shluchos. I am on shluchos and I don't feel as if I have very much in common with a kollel wife in lakewood or israel.

there is already a "yeshivishe" section, and most long term kollelniks are yeshivishe.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 4:51 pm
Yes, yes, yes!!!!

I also have been thinking about this. Some of these topics come up in the Yeshivish/ Litvish forum, but we get attacked (less, but still a little) there too.

And I know there are Chassidish and Lubavitch kolel wives here too.

I think it would be very helpful, both for financial issues and also for mutual chizuk.
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 4:57 pm
Raisin wrote:
I think there is a big difference between kollel lives and wives of teachers, or shluchos. I am on shluchos and I don't feel as if I have very much in common with a kollel wife in lakewood or israel.

there is already a "yeshivishe" section, and most long term kollelniks are yeshivishe.


I think that it might depend on the situation.

For example, my DH is not formally in kollel, but he spends the majority of the day learning with chavrusas (mostly baalebatim), giving shiurim, and writing articles or sefarim. Most of the things that he does he doesn't get paid for, making me the primary breadwinner.

There are times that I struggle with this (especially when we have difficulty paying the bills), but usually I remind myself that what he is doing is very improtant and worthy of support. There are times that I need encouragement, however, or need advice as to whether I should encourage DH to do more writing (the one thing that pays), when it takes away from his learning, etc.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:09 pm
I was posting at the same time as your second comment, Atali, and Raisin's comment, so I only saw them now.

I agree with Raisin that it shouldn't be for kiruv/ shlichus wives in general. It should be for any woman who is the primary breadwinner, or being without a proper income, because her husband is in kolel or other ruchniyus activities with little or no monetary renumeration.

And I answered about the Litvish/ Yeshivish section before I saw both your postings. Smile
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:14 pm
shalhevet wrote:
I was posting at the same time as your second comment, Atali, and Raisin's comment, so I only saw them now.

I agree with Raisin that it shouldn't be for kiruv/ shlichus wives in general. It should be for any woman who is the primary breadwinner, or being without a proper income, because her husband is in kolel or other ruchniyus activities with little or no monetary renumeration.

And I answered about the Litvish/ Yeshivish section before I saw both your postings. Smile


Then I guess you have ruach hakodesh, because I was sure that you were responding to my second post Smile
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creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:43 pm
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Last edited by creativemommyto3 on Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:44 pm
What about having a closed forum for those who dh work in low-paying jobs, have to run to minyan in order to make the train and don;t have a 2 hour lunch to come home and help with the kids. Plus they just make it home for Shabbos, as Friday is a regular working day for men who dare step out of the holy world of kollel.
The first topic could be "How to still have kavonnah when davening when the shul is being swarmed by men collecting for kollelim, buying their kids an apartment etc."

I'm sure it would be a very popular forum!
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Tehilla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:45 pm
how is this any different than SAHMs getting bashed for being at home? or natural birthing/parenting people having every thread a debate? or someone who wants an epidural?
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creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:48 pm
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Last edited by creativemommyto3 on Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:52 pm
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Last edited by creativemommyto3 on Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 5:56 pm
Oh wow. This reminds me of how Seraph proved that there needed to be a frummer than before closed forum, by starting a thread just to prove how much people get bashed when it's open.

I think this thread itself just proves how much we need such a closed forum. Sad

And this is the real, honest truth. Every time someone posts a dilemma on kolel life, it can't even get discussed because the thread gets swamped with people telling her what an evil person she is for working outside the home (as if women with husbands working, don't), how dreadful she is for leaving her children with a babysitter, how selfish she is to sacrifice her children for her dream, how they also would want their husbands to be learning but they are responsible, how they would never give a penny to a kolel family because they also would want to be learning, but can't etc etc.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:03 pm
I don't understand why people have grudges against closed forums. They want a closed forum, let them have a closed forum. Why would it bother you so much???
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Tehilla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:05 pm
GR wrote:
I don't understand why people have grudges against closed forums. They want a closed forum, let them have a closed forum. Why would it bother you so much???


I personally don't mind so much. I just don't understand why some things are okay and some aren't.

I've wanted to start a thread on homebirth and one on a recent problem as a SAHM, and I didn't because of reactions I was sure I'd get.

my question is if kollel wives get a closed forum, does that mean now that others will also?
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creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:08 pm
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Last edited by creativemommyto3 on Sat, Aug 23 2008, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:13 pm
GR wrote:
I don't understand why people have grudges against closed forums. They want a closed forum, let them have a closed forum. Why would it bother you so much???


I don't have a problem with a closed forum but the question is why should it only be limited to those who have a dh in full time kollel?
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:17 pm
Tehilla wrote:
GR wrote:
I don't understand why people have grudges against closed forums. They want a closed forum, let them have a closed forum. Why would it bother you so much???


I personally don't mind so much. I just don't understand why some things are okay and some aren't.

I've wanted to start a thread on homebirth and one on a recent problem as a SAHM, and I didn't because of reactions I was sure I'd get.

my question is if kollel wives get a closed forum, does that mean now that others will also?

That's up to Yael though. I'm sure that if enough people would request those forums to be closed, Yael would consider it.

Creativemommy- the point of a closed forum for kollel wives is not to form a private club of ladies who are "machshiv" the Torah, as you say it. The point is to be in a group of people just like them so they can share and compare. If the shoe doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, no matter how loud you protest against the color of the shoe. The color of the shoe isn't the issue.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:20 pm
creativemommyto3, just because others are on the same level doesn't mean they're living the same lifestyle. It's not that a kollel wife is better than a woman whose husband learns part-time, but she's in a different situation, and unfortunately one that some people like to criticize. I haven't seen women being bashed here for working while their husband works a low-income job or working a few extra hours so he can learn a few extra hours (although I wouldn't be surprised if it happened and I missed it), but those with husbands in kollel really get nasty comments sometimes.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2008, 6:21 pm
And there is a closed forum where those sacrificing to live in Israel can air their feelings--the life in Israel forum.
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