Can we have a closed forum for kollel wives?

Twizzlers

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 8:24 pm

I just want to say, creativemommyto3 I agree with you.
go check up the thread I started about too many private forums. we discussed the Life in Israel forum which is closed. I argued that people that wish they could live there but cant and have their heart there should be allowed in. IIRC, it was shalhevet who stated that we cant be allowed in because
" many times such posts would be in the category of LH about EY (since someone living in America might perceive this culture as being strange). To those living here longer who can help and to those living here less time who need a sounding board, it is for to'eles (benefit) and allowed." amongst other silly (imo) reasons.
interestingly enough, she never answered my question of where it says that venting loshon hora is permitted.

but in any case, I view this whole private forum business quite distasteful. to me, asking for a private forum is like saying "if u are not exactly like me, and dont fit exactly into this box, then I dont want to talk to u." not just that, but also "I dont want u reading what I have to say on this topic because u are not exactly like me"
which is really very babyish.

Crayon210

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 8:32 pm

Aidelmom wrote:

Why can't it be like the natural parenting forum? Open, but not for debate about kollel.

I agree.

BTW, if you start a thread and explicitly state that it's for chizuk/not to go off-topic/not to debate, I will do my best to keep it that way. You can always PM me or report posts that don't conform with the OP's request.

BusyBeeMommy

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 8:32 pm

Y'know, I'm still young and innocent, but one thing I am learning in life is that no matter what you do there will always be people who will judge you. If you learn in kollel, work full time, are a SAHM, work part time, space your kids, live off your parent's money, take cleaning and babysitting help...
Each person lives the lifestyle they are used to. Some people come from wealthy homes, learn full time, wives stay home and they take money only from their parents. If they are content being dependant that way, kol hakavod! Will people judge them? YES! Some take lots of household help while being SAHMs, others work full time and don't take any help. Who can judge? Why do people judge?

I have a friend who's DH works and she works and she has a kid. When my DH was in kollel, she told me I wasn't living in the real world. Turns out though, she likes to kill herself so she can have an extra car and go on vacation a few times a year. I didn't do that. Is that the real world? So what about the secular high roller kids whose parents buy them a car and send them off to trips around Europe and give them 10 years to "find" themselves and spoil them to no end. Are they also not living in the real world? Maybe. But who are we to judge? Only G-d can judge and it's none of our business! No one knows anybody's full picture, how can one bash another?

mimivan

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 10:08 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I was posting at the same time as your second comment, Atali, and Raisin's comment, so I only saw them now.

I agree with Raisin that it shouldn't be for kiruv/ shlichus wives in general. It should be for any woman who is the primary breadwinner, or being without a proper income, because her husband is in kolel or other ruchniyus activities with little or no monetary renumeration.

And I answered about the Litvish/ Yeshivish section before I saw both your postings. Smile

as an ex-collel wife (dh is now working, so I wouldn't be able to join now) I really think you ladies do need a private forum. I remember all of those hijacked discussions Rolling Eyes

I vote "yes!"

Twizzlers: I don't think it is "babyish" to have private forums, nor is it an exclusive snobbish mindset nor is it fear of being judged. I think most of us, at time, have had issues we need to discuss with people in the same boat. As much as someone would love to live in E.Y, it is not like being here (for example). Sometimes, concerning whatever issue, a person needs to air problems with those in the same boat without having to worry about a thread being hijacked or those not in the situation offering advice that would not be the same as the advice given by someone in that situation.

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 1:23 am

Crayon210 wrote:

Aidelmom wrote:

Why can't it be like the natural parenting forum? Open, but not for debate about kollel.

This is the best idea!! I do think that ppl get quite nasty about kollel and I also have very innocent questions about they system too .

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 2:01 am

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

GAMZu

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 2:41 am

I'm against closed forums for some topics, but I did notice that kollel families DO get bashed a LOT.

So do working mothers, which are inherent in a kollel family.

Truthfully, I myself have friends whose husbands learn and they are struggling with a KA"H growing family... putting their newborns in daycare, wearing themselves thin trying to work and barely seeing their kids all day.
I feel so sad for them sometimes. And I do have what to say on some kollel threads. But I don't. Because just because I disagree, I don't have to bash your lifestyle. Because you are not all clones of me.

So I think a private forum for kollel wives is a positive thing. Now if someone would start a thread in the debate forum on this topic... LOL

I'd have no problems sharing my view.

shalhevet

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 5:02 am

Crayon210 wrote:

Aidelmom wrote:

Why can't it be like the natural parenting forum? Open, but not for debate about kollel.

I disagree. Why can't other closed forums be open then, like Lub, Chassidish etc? Because part of the purpose of closed forums is to be able to discuss problems specific to a certain community without having to 'air our dirty linen in public'. Not everything that can be discussed among those who understand is appropriate for a wider audience. If someone has difficulties because of kolel life, how comfortable will she feel posting for support knowing hundreds of women are reading it and nodding their heads and saying 'didn't we tell you so?'

I posted on another thread a few weeks ago, that with almost all the closed forums those 'inside' feel it should be closed, while those who don't belong there feel there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to read what divorced women/ those who live in Israel/ victims of abuse etc etc have to say.

I think the criteria for the forum should be:
Women who have allowed their husbands to engage in Torah learning/ teaching/ kiruv knowing that their husbands will bring in little or no income.

creativemommy - I would hope most of the women here have husbands who learn regularly. Maybe you should start a forum for those on low incomes, but the things you are talking about are to do with the financial necessity of both parents working, and not so much to do with learning (although, of course, by encouraging your husband to learn you are giving up his help).

shalhevet

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:22 am

I really don't have time to answer you point by point.

But two things - kolel life is not just about living on a low income. There are kolel couples supported very well by their parents, and working people on a low income.

Why do you keep thinking people are judging? What has this with what HKBH thinks about what anyone does? The purpose is a closed group for mutual support, and it is how people define it. When someone works and learns every day we say they are kove'a itim, not that they are in kolel. Recently a closed BT forum was started here, and those who started it chose how to define BT, and I have no problems with that.

And I also hope that Hashem helps you to appreciate all you have, and you will have plenty of parnassa for all your needs.

Aidelmom

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:23 am

creative, why are you turning this into a debate about kollel? Life has its challenges for many people for various reasons. Its not about which one is more difficult. Its about making a forum for a group of people in a specific situation..

When I wrote why not have the forum like the natural parenting section, I was just throwing out an idea. I haven't clarified to myself yet whether I think a closed forum would be better.

About all the closed forums, I would love to get a peek at the way diff people live, theres something to learn from everyone, but I understand Shalhevets point about the purpose of closed forums.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:31 am

I don't think Kollel wives are a distinct enough group to have their own closed forum. They fit nicely into many of the forums we have already, like Life in Israel etc.

Also, just I feel that there are too many closed forums already. Where will it end? A closed forum for left-handers? A forum for NYCer only? A forum for this, a forum for that...ahhhhh Rolling Eyes

a little achdus ladies!!