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Would you say no your ADHD almost 12 year old 95% of the tim
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Would you no to an ADHD almost 12 year old girl 95% of the time?
yes  
 4%  [ 1 ]
no  
 85%  [ 18 ]
other. pls explain in comments  
 9%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 21



amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:04 am
My almost 12 yr old dd is a super personable, adorable and endearing personality, loves to be busy, social butterfly. She also has ADHD and anxiety, which the main common denominator is trouble with self regulation/emotional regulation. She cries easily and can quickly work herself up into a frenzy, stomping around, slamming doors, occasionally hurting someone (even parents). My husband has claimed for a long time that we have to be stricter with her and treat her according to how she is acting. Meaning, she can only get 12 year old privileges if she acts like a 12 year old, displays age appropriate maturity and behaviors, and can control herself (or at least take the steps to try). she is on medication for both things and in therapy.

We went through a long period of time where we dealt with her according to my intuition, which was to let her spread her wings, feel good about herself, be busy with the things she enjoys, stay up late sometimes, have sleepovers, etc. but it was too much freedom and my husband felt that it was connected to her frequent meltdowns and lack of responsibility, etc. So we switched over to his way which is the exact opposite.

Now, she is held accountable for everything, demanding the responsibility and maturity of a 12 year old, and in return, she will get the priviliges she is seeking. The problem is she has not been meeting the expectations and she is miserable. Her 8 year old sister can have a sleepover but it's always no no no for her bc she wasn't able to control herself yesterday morning, or bc she was too hyper/wild with her friends over shabbos. She has the earliest bedtime in her class, she can rarely go out at night (like to womens swim for example, where she would be home 9:30ish), etc.

Based on my research and being the parent who primarily meets with the psychiatrist and psychologist (both this daughter and another child), I have learned that kids like this are neuro divergent and their brains are literally wired differently. I don't think she is capable of acting the way she is expected to act and it breaks my heart to see her being treated like she can and then having the "natural consequences" of being treated like a 6 year old because that is the way she is acting. My husband claims that she can control herself if she is incentivized and motivated to do so and if she knows that she will receive the privileges she asks for, she will act better.

I'm the one who does the research, attends classes/webinars on this topic, and speaks to multiple ppl - parents ts of neuro divergent kids, teachers, professionals, etc. My husband does not, but he is in chinuch and is amazing at what he does amd is good parent. He is also a black and white thinker and gets irritated when someone is all over the place like my dd is. Our rav has no experience in this area so no one to ask there.

Please help me figure out the right approach and how to go about this. Thanks!
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amother
Gold


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:25 am
So what I got out of what you wrote is that when your daughter acts out she gets punished that she can't have a sleepover a DAY later?
Is your six year old such an angel that she NEVER gets into trouble?
Yes the kid has to be held accountable for what she does but more than 24 hours later even for a regular child that's just wow!
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:29 am
My child is very similar and I would not try this approach. You're trying it and it's not working. I think you need to try something in the middle.

It's not ok to act up, but you can't treat her like a 12 year old. You really have to lower your expectations. These kids need tons of patience and validation and few rules.

Privileges shouldn't be connected to behaviors.

I would try more problem solving, listening, validating, bonding and showing perspective.

Read the book the uncontrollable child

I worry that this way of working with her can cause mental health issues like depression
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:30 am
sometimes even more than 24 hours. Mostly no and more nos until she can prove that she won't have meltdowns and will be responsible and mature 😟
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:33 am
amother Ecru wrote:
My child is very similar and I would not try this approach. You're trying it and it's not working. I think you need to try something in the middle.

It's not ok to act up, but you can't treat her like a 12 year old. You really have to lower your expectations. These kids need tons of patience and validation and few rules.

Privileges shouldn't be connected to behaviors.

I would try more problem solving, listening, validating, bonding and showing perspective.

Read the book the uncontrollable child

I worry that this way of working with her can cause mental health issues like depression


Can you please expound on the bolded?
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amother
Razzmatazz


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:34 am
I think it's fine to enforce things that are natural consequences, like early bedtime if you don't handle yourself well when tired, but not random punishments. You need to meet her where she's at and set her up for success. Allow her to earn privileges by setting the bar just high enough that you know she can still reach it.
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:35 am
You definitely need a middle ground.

Maybe consider focusing on only ONE area for now, and use your husband's method in that one area (ideally one you do feel she might be capable of).

Remember that humans in general (even neurotypical ones) are not capable of fixing everything all at once!

For all other things, use more flexibility.

You also may want privileges to be rewards, not threats. So she can earn the night swim by doing chores or behaving, but won't lose it from tantrums. (She can have consequences, but they should be independent of privileges she earns.)
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happy7




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:36 am
you are not setting her up for wins.
she is being pushed into repeated failures
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amother
Navyblue


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:41 am
I don’t have a good answer for you. Only wanted to jump in here and say that I empathize with you 100%. I have a daughter similar in age and behavior though mine has a few additional diagnosis too and it’s hard. Other ppl don’t understand the struggle because she doesn’t look like she has special needs.

Our child’s therapist has been amazing at helping us navigate her behaviors and consequences etc.
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mushkamothers




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:45 am
amother OP wrote:
sometimes even more than 24 hours. Mostly no and more nos until she can prove that she won't have meltdowns and will be responsible and mature 😟


Do the opposite. Look out for the smallest positive wins and heavily reward them.

Adhd is Impulsive and lacks control so it's really not fair or possible to really expect that she will behave. A behaviorist approach won't work here (positive or negative). At least a positive one will increase self esteem. There is very deep shame for adhd people and with good reason. They know they're not meeting expectations, especially their own.

You need to equip her with tools and strategies not punish her for lacking them. Her brain is indeed missing areas. You can actually literally see it on a brain scan (look up Dr amen)
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 12:45 am
Nope, this is terrible. She can learn accountability and she actually does need consequences, but not like this.

Go on YouTube and watch this entire playlist
"Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD-The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know". It's a lecture by the leading ADHD psychiatrist for parents of ADHD kids.

https://www.youtube.com/playli.....s-cvY

The two main issues I see with what's happening are (which you'll hear more about in those videos):

1. With respect to the skills they're missing, kids with ADHD are about 1/3 of the age of their peers. (Maybe we generally classify all this under one umbrella to say "maturity", but there are more specific skills affecting her like impulse control, emotional dysregulation, etc, where she might only have the capacity of an 8yo or someone even younger.) So you might actually be expecting her to do certain things that's she's incapable of, and you're all going to suffer.

2. Kids with ADHD need immediate consequences. Like immediate-immediate. Not in three hours, certainly not in 24 hours, and definitely not the next day. And it would probably be more effective to make them positive immediate consequences to build her up, than focusing on negative immediate consequences which will make everyone miserable. But regardless, based on her brain type, making consequences far out are probably not going to impact her behavior.

Read the book The Explosive Child. There are great methods in there. But you (or maybe DH) really needs to understand her limitations and what's going to help her.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:03 am
amother OP wrote:
sometimes even more than 24 hours. Mostly no and more nos until she can prove that she won't have meltdowns and will be responsible and mature 😟


Therapy doesn't give you all the tools. The tools also come from parenting, from parents who are you guides in life heloing you learn the tools to self regulate, and getting through those moments.

You need to meet with a parenting specialist. I reccomend someone who does the nurtured heart approach. Kids WANT to please you and be good, but she is clearly struggling and suffering lacking the tools to do so.

Has she gotten evaluated fully? Are you sure she isn't autistic as well? If she's having meltdowns so often at 12, many many times a day, I haven't heard that being common at that age, especially for girls.

Reminds me over shabbos I was reading that new book "Bad therapy" at a friend's house, and I remember the author went into detail how kids weren't diagnosed 20 years ago, they were told just get over it and mature up and they were pretty much fine. She gave many examples but one that jumped out to me was a kid who can't sleep because of noise in the hallway, and how now a mom will coddle them and buy a sound machine and "accommodate them" and how that makes them ultimately suffer and learn they can just get their needs catered too.

I was not given a sound machine, or darkout shades, or anything like that. And no I did not get over it, I simply didn't sleep well until I got married. It took me hours on end to fall asleep and I suffered greatly. I was bored, lonely and sacred each night for hours on end, and woke up often through out the night. Am I coddling myself by using a sound machine and making the room pitch dark? I think not. I'm setting myself up for success.
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oneofakind




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:19 am
Your DH needs to be part of the process. At the very least, meeting with the psychologist and therapist. He may be great at chinuch for MAINSTREAM children but he is not an ADHD expert.

This approach is not working which tells you it has to change.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:35 am
No. This is clearly not working.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:42 am
amother OP wrote:
.He is also a black and white thinker and gets irritated when someone is all over the place like my dd is. Our rav has no experience in this area so no one to ask there.

Please help me figure out the right approach and how to go about this. Thanks!


Since someone raised the possibility of asd, any chance your dh has some traits as well? It's often genetic.
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amother
Currant


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:55 am
There needs to be a balance.
Divide privileges into 3 categories.
By age
By behavior
Earned privileges.

Then sit with your husband and work out what falls into each category. She shouldn't be getting nothing at all because of her disability but she also has to learn accountability.

Privileges by age eg. bedtime, going places with friends etc are not taken away.

Privileges by behavior are direct consequences. You didn't clean up, next time we can't do this. It applies for the one next time they ask. The second next time, you remind her what happened last time and ask if she feels capable this time of doing it differently. Another example. You were allowed to stay up late but you came back later than we agreed. Next time you can't be up late. Direct consequence. It's not a punishment, it's a consequence. These apply to the entire family.

Earned privileges are things that you get if you show you are responsible. You may not normally allow a sleepover on a school night. If you show me you are going to bed on time every single night, I may allow you a special privilege of a sleepover even though it's a school night.

Every family will divide their privileges up differently. Work out what works for you. This way she is getting a certain amount of privileges but also learning accountability. Also, it's not punishing her. It's direct consequence which is easier for her to understand.

Stick to this division for the entire family.

One last piece of advice if I may. You and your husband may have very different parenting styles and that's ok. The thing is when you have neurodivergent children, you often end up with the parents fighting over how to treat them. The most important thing you can do for your children is show a united front even if that front is not the ideal front you want. If your body language is showing that you don't agree with what your husband is doing, your children will suffer. I can hear in your posts that you disagree with your husband and you are feeling desperate about it, this can cause more damage than his methods. You MUST talk to him and work out a method you are both happy with.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 1:58 am
amother Amber wrote:
Since someone raised the possibility of asd, any chance your dh has some traits as well? It's often genetic.


Oh yeah. Somehow I completely missed this. I definitely agree. It also could be why they are butting heads often. Dh is autistic and his father is diagnosed autistic as well and they constantly butt heads.
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familyfirst




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 3:27 am
Your goal is to foster self esteem and positivity, as well as strengthen your relationship.

Reward at self control. Do not keep taking away privileges. It’s just too hard. She needs her friends and sleepovers. Speak with her before sleepover about what is to be expected.

Do not treat her with fewer privileges than her eight year old sister. You are setting them up for long time sibling rivalry.

And bring an excellent teacher does not always translate to being the authority on all things parenting. Classroom and home have very different dynamics.

Best to have a talk with her. Ask her for her input. How can we make this sleepover work?
Etc

This is not to say that I love progressive parenting. Way too permissive. The trick is to find the balance.

Good luck! You sound like a very caring and intuitive mom!
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amother
Broom


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 4:52 am
You state that you have therapists and psychiatrist heavily involved. They are the professionals!! They know your daughter very well and they know kids with ADHD very well. This is a time to consult with THEM!

You and your husband have your own visions of how your daughter will grow and thrive, but it is super important to get feedback from people who are a)impartial and b)expert in this field.

Ask them--and FAST!!

💗💗
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amother
Ballota


 

Post Sun, Jun 09 2024, 7:07 am
amother OP wrote:
sometimes even more than 24 hours. Mostly no and more nos until she can prove that she won't have meltdowns and will be responsible and mature 😟

Is she medicated for her ADHD and anxiety?

If she is not then you have no right to punish her/ withhold privileges because you are withholding from her the tools she needs to control herself and calm her nervous system. So first medicate and then see how she behaves and go from there.

If she is medicated then you need to look into other therapies/ skills, or possibly a medication switch.

You cannot expect someone whose brain is wired differently AND overanxious to display age-appropriate behavior unless you help calm the anxiety and provide them with an "interrupt" button for their ADHD.
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