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Forum -> Parenting our children
5 year old saw in the mikvah what do I say??
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 5:20 am
amother Tealblue wrote:
The abuse part is that the little boy may see exposed men.

If a person exposes themselves to a child for s-xual reasons, that's abuse.

What makes it abuse isn't that the child is seeing a naked body. It's the "for s-xual reasons" part.

Seeing a naked body in a neutral context - a younger sibling running around naked, friends swimming naked together, seeing people shower in a locker room - is not child abuse. It might or might not be a good idea, but it's not abuse.

(although as others said, parents should be aware of the potential for abuse + should have a close eye on their kids in those situations)
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amother
Tealblue


 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 7:25 pm
ora_43 wrote:
If a person exposes themselves to a child for s-xual reasons, that's abuse.

What makes it abuse isn't that the child is seeing a naked body. It's the "for s-xual reasons" part.

Seeing a naked body in a neutral context - a younger sibling running around naked, friends swimming naked together, seeing people shower in a locker room - is not child abuse. It might or might not be a good idea, but it's not abuse.

(although as others said, parents should be aware of the potential for abuse + should have a close eye on their kids in those situations)


It is a child abuse of parents to expose their children to things that are not age appropriate for them. It is child abuse of parents to expose their little children to nude adults, even if a body is in it's natural context.
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amother
Moccasin


 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 7:38 pm
Besides for indecent exposure exposure, the Mikvah is full of horror stories of s-xual abuse. My father (Chassidish) was touched inappropriately as a child in the mikvah and never let my brothers go unless required to. My DH said that as a child, (with his father right there!) an older man pinched his bare behind. DH also no longer goes to Mikvah unless required to and only goes to ‘by appointment only’ ones
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anonymous mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 7:44 pm
amother Dahlia wrote:
What changes at bar mitzvah?


The reason chasidish men go to the mikvah is because they believe that a certain tumah befalls a person after semen is expelled from the body. We assume bar mitzvah boys have already reached puberty so there is a possibility that semen was expelled.

What is a 5 year old doing at the mikvah???????
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 7:55 pm
I don't think that boys younger than bar mitzvah should go to a public mikva but for perspective, 150 years ago and earlier everyone went to the bathhouses together (separated by gender of course) and no one thought anything of it.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 8:05 pm
amother Periwinkle wrote:
I don't think that boys younger than bar mitzvah should go to a public mikva but for perspective, 150 years ago and earlier everyone went to the bathhouses together (separated by gender of course) and no one thought anything of it.


It’s not really perspective because that was 150 years ago, you have no idea how likely is was for a child to be abused and even if they weren’t at all, the world is obviously different today with lots of risks. And we live in a different culture where nudity, especially to a child, is not a casual thing.

It’s like saying for perspective there are tribes in Africa who walk around topless. Great- that still would be inappropriate to do in our society
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 13 2024, 8:11 pm
Thanks everyone!

He hasn't asked about it so I havent spoken about it to him but maybe I should
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:49 am
amother Tealblue wrote:
It is a child abuse of parents to expose their children to things that are not age appropriate for them. It is child abuse of parents to expose their little children to nude adults, even if a body is in it's natural context.

That's not legally true, and it's morally absurd. By your standards every parent who's ever taken their child to a public beach or a swimming pool is a s-x abuser.

Again, not talking about the potential for abuse within the mikva; parents should be careful and accompany their kids. (It would help, too, if abusers were dealt with quickly and viciously.)
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amother
Pear


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:08 am
I can't in my right mind understand why any mother would let her son under age 13 go to the mikva, let alone a 5 year old. I'll chalk it up to naivete, but if you're reading this and have young children who go to the mikva, I hope that you're comfy with A) being an accomplice to potential child abuse and B) have had and continue to have numerous conversations about body safety. Don't fool yourself before it's too late.

Signed, amother who has seen the long lasting damage this has done, sometimes spanning generations.
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amother
Tealblue


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 7:13 am
ora_43 wrote:
That's not legally true, and it's morally absurd. By your standards every parent who's ever taken their child to a public beach or a swimming pool is a s-x abuser.

Again, not talking about the potential for abuse within the mikva; parents should be careful and accompany their kids. (It would help, too, if abusers were dealt with quickly and viciously.)


There aren't nude people walking around at the public beach or pool.
Perhaps you don't know what a men's mikvah is, but it is absolutely no place for a young child & it is abuse to take young children there.
If someone would say that a man exposed himself to their child, everyone would yell abuse. This is no different. This is parents exposing their children to something inappropriate for them.
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amother
Lightgray


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 7:29 am
Honestly, just like women's mikvahs are appointment only and we don't all do it together, men's ones should be. No difference in practicality - both are fully exposed at the same time.
So many men have been abused. Since they can't go in at the exact time of their father's then they cannot be watched 100% of the time. So many have been abused and have lifelong repercussions including OTD and addiction issues. It is a place that predators like to hang out...
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amother
Ultramarine


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 8:50 am
You shd prob speak to him about it I was exposed to naked ladies at the Y when I was 6/7 and was traumatized for a long time
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Odelyah




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 9:35 am
amother Ultramarine wrote:
You shd prob speak to him about it I was exposed to naked ladies at the Y when I was 6/7 and was traumatized for a long time

not invalidating, just genuinely want to understand better--what about it was traumatizing for you?
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amother
Butterscotch


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 9:37 am
Odelyah wrote:
not invalidating, just genuinely want to understand better--what about it was traumatizing for you?


Not that amother but when I was a kid I saw ladies changing after swimming in an indoor pool in Israel. They stripped naked and those images stayed with me for a long time. Can’t say I was traumatized but it was very unpleasant.
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amother
Ultramarine


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 9:59 am
Odelyah wrote:
not invalidating, just genuinely want to understand better--what about it was traumatizing for you?


Why if we’re sheltered from non tznius things is seeing naked women not considered untznius? Especially when you’re a little kid. I didn’t need to see boobs hanging and hairy vayjays. Same as little boys seeing their fathers or other men walking around naked I don’t believe in the concept.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 10:01 am
amother Ultramarine wrote:
You shd prob speak to him about it I was exposed to naked ladies at the Y when I was 6/7 and was traumatized for a long time


why were there naked ladies at the y?
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amother
Dahlia


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 10:04 am
amother Natural wrote:
It’s not really perspective because that was 150 years ago, you have no idea how likely is was for a child to be abused and even if they weren’t at all, the world is obviously different today with lots of risks. And we live in a different culture where nudity, especially to a child, is not a casual thing.

It’s like saying for perspective there are tribes in Africa who walk around topless. Great- that still would be inappropriate to do in our society


What's "our society"? It's in the segments of our society where it is considered normal and okay where this is done. And it is much like how it's normal to walk around topless in some African tribes.
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amother
Ultramarine


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 10:22 am
amother OP wrote:
why were there naked ladies at the y?


Public showers.
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kenz




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 3:17 pm
I’m so glad we don’t have this minhag.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Fri, Jun 14 2024, 4:28 pm
kenz wrote:
I’m so glad we don’t have this minhag.


Nobody has a minhag to send 5 year olds to the mikvah. Im as chassidish as it gets…
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