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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Dd hanging out with friends using their phones on shabbos



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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:00 am
Problem 1. Teen dd has friends who go to a more modern school who have jewish public school friends. I found out that many kids in this group casually use their phones on shabbos. Their parents don't really care. Dd insists she doesn't use it but I think it's terrible that she's sitting in a group of several girls shabbos afternoon with bunch of them using their phones as if it's nothing.

Problem 2. These are basically her friends. Telling her to hang out with another group won't really work because there really isn't another group.

Problem 3. Dh says we should just tell her that she is not permitted to use her phone on shabbos but she is allowed to continue hanging out with these girls. I think inevitably she won't be frum in a few years if we allow this.

Problem 4. I think we need to take drastic measures and call the school. I think they will sit her down, scare her a little, and tell her she can't hang out with girls that aren't religious. Dh feels that is a non starter and they might kick her out of school. I feel dd will be more inclined to listen to the school than us and we need to do something.
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amother
NeonOrange


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:03 am
The best way to ensure your daughter ends up not frum is to involve the school.

Listen to your husband here. Hes saying smart things. You are saying things that will cause pretty big damage down the road.

(My mother tried it your way. My siblings are all mechalilai shabbos now and dont talk to her)
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amother
Green


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:04 am
Does she not have any school friends? Why is she not hanging out with any of them?
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:13 am
I had friends who did all kinds of things you wouldn’t approve of. I stuck to my values and enjoyed spending time with them because they were otherwise really nice. Your dd won’t go otd because of them if she doesn’t want to for her own reasons. Your dh is right here. Trust your child if she has proven trustworthy.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:15 am
amother NeonOrange wrote:
The best way to ensure your daughter ends up not frum is to involve the school.

Listen to your husband here. Hes saying smart things. You are saying things that will cause pretty big damage down the road.

(My mother tried it your way. My siblings are all mechalilai shabbos now and dont talk to her)



I'm listening. Why do you feel this way. Please explain.
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S1959




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:24 am
You might want to review with your daughter why cell phones are assur on Shabbos. Just telling her that we don't use them is not enough. Also, set up things so she and her friends have positive things to do on Shabbos.
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amother
Kiwi


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:27 am
Let her be and keep lines of communication open. If you forbid anything, you will push her in the other direction. Trust her. Do not involve the school!! At best, they will tell you what happens outside of school is not their issue. At worst they will throw her out or turn her off with their scare tactics.
As above posters have asked, why is she not friends with girls from her school?
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amother
Stonewash


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:27 am
Have them hang out in your house.
Offer yummy food to nosh on, cut up Watermelon....
Build a strong relationship with your daughter. Take her out at least once a week and give her individual attention.
That's such a tough situation! Hatzlacha!
(I have a dd who's mechalel shabbos so believe me, I know!! Crying )
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amother
Lightyellow


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 12:39 am
amother NeonOrange wrote:
The best way to ensure your daughter ends up not frum is to involve the school.

Listen to your husband here. Hes saying smart things. You are saying things that will cause pretty big damage down the road.

(My mother tried it your way. My siblings are all mechalilai shabbos now and dont talk to her)

I strongly agree with this.

I was just like your daughter in high school. We were a group of five friends from yeshivish families hanging out with significantly less frum girls. Four of our parents ignored it and/or trusted us. The last set of parents got very involved, trying to separate their daughter from our friend group as well as the less frum girls. Four of us are still friends, frum, married, etc. The last girl is no contact with her parents and siblings and is mechalel Shabbos, kosher, etc. I'm not even sure she is married to someone Jewish.

Here are three main reasons that I can think of offhand why this approach is a terrible idea:

1. The best way to ensure your daughter ends up not frum is by making her feel labeled as a "bad girl." Once she feels like the school is telling her she’s doing something wrong, her natural instinct will be to think, "If they think I’m bad anyway, I may as well be bad."

2. Never in the history of history has telling a teen not to be friends with someone been an effective way to stop a friendship. Your daughter will likely continue the friendship in secret or feel like she needs to openly rebel which never limits itself to just one area.

3. If she feels like both you and the school are not on her side, who do you think she will turn to when she has a problem? That's right. The friends who you don't approve it.
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camp123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 2:48 am
Don't go to the school
Don't ban her from seeing these friends

Do
Show her you trust her
Create an amazing relationship with her, so she can share her struggles with you.
Get her to read books that strengthen her emunah.
Talk about Hashem a lot and have gratitude for everything you have
Suggest but don't demand she forms relationships with girls from her own school
Daven a lot
Even if she falls for a bit in her teen years, if she's happy and you have a good relationship it's most likely she'll be a frum adult. Think long term not short term.
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amother
Snow


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 3:02 am
Teens don’t stop friendships because mommy or morah said so. It’s not a thing that happens, especially when they are their only friends.

Telling the school would be you outsourcing your parenting to them, betraying your daughter, potentially putting her at risk of having the school threaten to kick her out, making her resent the school and think they’re controlling, making her lose her feeling of being liked and safe in school. No, no, no. It’s a truly terrible idea. If she ever found out you did that, oh my goodness. She would never forgive it.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 3:16 am
Not sure I have advice for your particular situation, but having been in a different yet similar situation, I can tell you that involving the school is a big no-no! Tattling on your own child to the school will only push your daughter further away, not to mention as to what the school will actually do with that information is beyond your control. As someone else mentioned, having a good relationship with your daughter, inviting your daughter's friends over etc are definitely going to encourage your daughter to do the right thing.
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teachkids




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:08 am
Def don’t get the school involved. Do offer to collect her phone before Shabbos to remove the temptation/ so she could blame you.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:40 am
Why does everyone run to involve the school? This has nothing to do with the school and everything to do with judaism in the home and what is important to her.
Dont involve the school. This has NOTHING to do with them and will only make things worse with your daughter.

And I know if my parents would have done this and not talked to me themselves, I would have been so mad at them and rebelled because of this.
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amother
Darkblue


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:08 am
Listen to all the good advice above.
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amother
Lightblue


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:15 am
Keep telling her how PROUD you are if her that she is so strong and committed to Yiddishkeit.
Can DH learn with her? Maybe once or twice a week? Maybe Navi or Halacha?
Can you do something together with her on a regular basis?
Let her know that are there for her!
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Cheiny




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:47 pm
amother OP wrote:
Problem 1. Teen dd has friends who go to a more modern school who have jewish public school friends. I found out that many kids in this group casually use their phones on shabbos. Their parents don't really care. Dd insists she doesn't use it but I think it's terrible that she's sitting in a group of several girls shabbos afternoon with bunch of them using their phones as if it's nothing.

Problem 2. These are basically her friends. Telling her to hang out with another group won't really work because there really isn't another group.

Problem 3. Dh says we should just tell her that she is not permitted to use her phone on shabbos but she is allowed to continue hanging out with these girls. I think inevitably she won't be frum in a few years if we allow this.

Problem 4. I think we need to take drastic measures and call the school. I think they will sit her down, scare her a little, and tell her she can't hang out with girls that aren't religious. Dh feels that is a non starter and they might kick her out of school. I feel dd will be more inclined to listen to the school than us and we need to do something.


I definitely agree with you that you’re right to be concerned. Peer pressure, along with regular teen stuff like being influenced by friends, are a real danger. It’s not a proper Shabbos atmosphere for her at all if she’s spending it with people who are mechallel Shabbos. I disagree with your dh completely that it’s fine for her to be with the friends on Shabbos as long as she hears she’s not permitted to use her phone on Shabbos. Would this even need to be said to her if her friends were the proper type?

I don’t think you should start out by telling the school. I think first thing is you and your dh should sit down with your Rabbi and discuss this so that you and he can get on the same page re. the seriousness of this issue, and to hear the Rabbi’s perspective on how to proceed.

How is she doing otherwise? Is she happy? Doing well in school?
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amother
NeonOrange


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 9:56 pm
amother OP wrote:
I'm listening. Why do you feel this way. Please explain.


someone else summed it up pretty well but I will add:

School is where she has a certain image. Image is everything with teenagers. If you shatter that image in school by telling them something bad about your daughter, she will probably not want to go back there ever again so even if they dont throw her out, you may very well have caused a situation where your daughter is no longer in school. Then you will have to find a school that will take a girl who dropped out and that will most likely be a place for troubled kids and you will be worse off than before.

I speak from loads of experience..... this happened with all my siblings.
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amother
Poinsettia


 

Post Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:37 pm
Listen to all the advice above, also as your main issue right now is shabbes try to put in the extra effort to make shabbes feel beautiful in your own home it goes a long way.
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