"Different" Children - don't let it come to this !

BeershevaBubby

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 6:44 am

I think the problem that some of us have is that the video representation of the song doesn't show a child going off the derech, but A derech. And quite frankly, as long as a child is Shomer Torah and Mitzvot, wearing jeans, colored shirts and a knitted kippah is not a reason to toss your child out onto the street.

We raise our children the best we can, teaching them our values and our Haskafah. But at the end of the day, our children are individuals and sometimes that means they head down a path not of our choosing. By closing the door on them because of their choices, you are closing the door of ever hoping they will find their way back to 'your' path.

And as for the beer? Well, in a society that is only now coming around to the problems of underage drinking, what do you expect? The kids that get falling-down and puking drunk on Simchat Torah and Purim often get the booze from their parents' table. So if Tatty doesn't say anything at the Shabbos tisch or the Purim seudah, what's an extra beer or sixteen during the week?

grin

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 6:50 am

amother wrote:

anon wrote:

. A boy once told me that he laughs when parents get upset that their sons have started wearing jeans because they don't realize that their sons wearing jeans is an indicator that they're also smoking pot or worse.

My son bought himself a pair of jeans and wore them during summer vacation. Are you saying I can be sure he is doing worse stuff? You really are getting me worried. I have no other reason to worry other than what you say here.

No way! IMO he's just "acting out" in a way which, altho frowned upon, is permissible. That's one reason I'm glad sometimes that the schools go overboard with their regulations. This way, the kids can rebel and still stay within bounds.

mimivan

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 6:52 am

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

anon wrote:

Hey, that's a very positive way of looking at it! Thanks..

ora_43

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 7:14 am

I really don't understand the problem with the kippa.

If the kippa is the only problem, and all the fictional video kid did was choose a different frum derech than his father, the message is "Don't kick your kid out just for becoming MO," which I think we could all agree to.

If the kid's dress was meant to indicate more serious "OTD" behavior, then the message is "Don't throw your kid out of the house in a fit of rage, leaving him to wander the streets of NYC and eventually die of cancer." Which I think we could all agree to as well.

The only disagreement here seems to be over whether there's ever a reason to kick a kid out of the house, and where the line should be drawn. But nobody is advocating kicking a kid out to roam the streets, or kicking a kid out in anger. Either way, it doesn't have much to do with the video.

mandksima

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 7:28 am

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

anon wrote:

Grin, I don't really understand the logic. Who says they'll stay within permissible bounds? What is the logic of going overboard with regulations in the first place? Isn't that one of the major reasons why children are going OFD? Isn't it because there is no wiggle room in the the "overboardness" of the institutions and then the subsequent trickling of the same lifestyle into the home (even if families don't see the need for it, they have to for shidduchim reasons?) It is a backwards situation to cause the virus and then treat it and hope it will be contained. Better to not introduce it and educate our children in a loving manner, each child according to his level and needs. I can't wait for moshiach to come and straighten everything out as it is clear rabbeim and even gedolim aren't able to change the system, it has gone too far...Sorry, just my own personal rant. I understand where you're coming from with that statement, the logic of it just bothers me. I don't think I could raise my kids in that system.

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 7:35 am

Oh my, I had a senior moment there for a while. I now realize that it's not tznius to have the mother in the film so they put her kitchen there as a representative. I did write before that everything in the film should have a meaning.
.... I wonder what she looks like. That blond kid sure as heck doesn't resemble his Abba.

Oh, and BTW - when I first opened the film DH was watching it with me and the first thing he noticed was the kippa sruga. He asked if that was what "they" think OTD is....

Clarissa

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 7:53 am

Tamiri wrote:

Poor mom, represented by some cabinets. On the other hand, the cabinets were better actors than...well, never mind. That wasn't natural blond hair, that was dyed hair. Maybe that's part of what happens, after the kipa thing.

costanza

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 8:05 am

I just watched the video and do not have time to read all of the comments.

That video is ridiculous. And offensive on many levels, as someone who comes from a MO point of view. First of all, the acting is pathetic. The premise that a teenager who talks on the phone and wears jeans and has a beer is worthy of throwing out on the streets is more pathetic. Why the cancer and death? A little extreme, no?

Videos like this, while trying to convey a message of loving your children no matter what (I think) does more to further ingrain in some religious Jews that their way is the only way.

The fact that some were so moved by this that they cried is surprising to me.

ChossidMom

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 8:12 am

mandksima wrote:

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

anon wrote:

I'll have to agree with mandksima here. I think that part of the problem with kids in ISRAEL going otd has to do with the fact that there are no institutions that are appropriate for them. The stringencies in the standard Charedi schools are sometimes way too much for them. They begin to feel very pressured and...... I have a Charedi nephew in Har Nof who went to an elementary school/cheder that had a nice article about it in Mishpacha once. They teach secular studies as well as Torah ones and they have a basketball court and encourage sports. My nephew was very happy there and is now going to a Yeshiva Ketana called Neharde'a where they also do bagrut. There are too few schools like these in Israel.

And, TAPS - what you wrote is spot on. I wanted to say exactly the same things about that kitchen!

gryp

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 8:59 am

That's what I was trying to say too. A kipah serugah and jeans doesn't = a finished product. When someone starts slipping, you don't know where they're going to end up. Only once they hit rock bottom do they start to come back. And rock-bottom means different things for different people and it's scary watching someone keep doing his downwards spiral and hitting new lows.
Rebellion always starts somewhere- different yarmulke, a name change, shaved off beard, no tzitzis, etc. If it ended there we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place about not allowing your child in your home.
I didn't watch the video because I don't like these things, they're always too fake, like the people in them are trying too hard to make it seem real. But as someone said, they're not going to act out drugging up, doing things with girls, etc.

smilingmom

Tue, Sep 09 2008, 9:40 am

FYI
This story was in TheYeshivaworld.com
"The following video titled “Still Your Child” was composed by Yitzy Waldner, and was sung by Shloimy Daskal on his new album titled Poseach Es Yadecha.

This song was inspired by a story that happened to someone Shloimy Daskal knew who had a falling out with his parents at a very young age. The situation deteriorated to a point where he could no longer stay in his parents home.

He was not reconciled with his parents until a number of years later when he was in the hospital with a terminal illness R”L……..

“It is my hope that this song will help people realize that we don’t always get a second chance to work out our differences. We need to treat each day in a relationship as if it is our last since there might never be a tomorrow,” Daskal said.

The Lyrics in this touching song were written by Chaim Reinman."

ChossidMom

Wed, Sep 10 2008, 12:24 am

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

The stringencies in the standard Charedi schools are sometimes way too much for them.

Oh Please I have news for you if that was the case what about Modern orthodox kids or even secular kids who go astray, it's not just the Charedi ones you know.

Noone truly knows the answer Sad

could be family life, could be raging yetzer hora , friends etc, could be lots of things Confused

but don't blame charedim for it please don't !!

Maybe I should move my post to the Israeli section since it could be that those of you who don't live here really can't know what I'm talking about. There are teens at risk in all the walks of Jewish life. But I call them as I see them. It is RAMPANT in my neighborhood. I am not "blaming Charedim". The system isn't perfect, you know.

catonmylap

Wed, Sep 10 2008, 1:25 am

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

The stringencies in the standard Charedi schools are sometimes way too much for them.

Oh Please I have news for you if that was the case what about Modern orthodox kids or even secular kids who go astray, it's not just the Charedi ones you know.

Noone truly knows the answer Sad

could be family life, could be raging yetzer hora , friends etc, could be lots of things Confused

but don't blame charedim for it please don't !!

It's not about blaming Charedim.

I think charedim have bigger problems in this area. They have a harder time accepting a child who is different due to greater social pressures (shidduchim, what will everyone think, etc). They have a more stringent system which leaves very little room for people who can't conform to it.

Of course there are MO kids who go astray, but this wasn't addressed to that segment.