Should I call in to excuse him?

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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mumoo

Thu, Sep 18 2008, 11:47 pm

DS, 16 yo, skipped gemorah to study for an algebra test. Coincidentally they are taught by the same Rebbe. For the most part, DS is a good student; he goes to class, gets good grades, maybe has a little too much "fun" in school.

I usually believe in letting my children make decisions for themselves , and reap (suffer) all the benefits (consequences) of those decisions.

But now he asked me to excuse this absence because otherwise his gemorah grade will be lowered by one grade.

I told him I wouldn't, but now he is upset because he only did this one time and learned, he says, about keeping on top of the work so there is not this studying crunch at the 11th hour.

We had a pretty heated discussion about respecting rules and how he is not in charge of deciding what is a "special situation." I would have really considered excusing him if he had only been contrite, admitting it was wrong, he should have studied all along, etc.

Instead he ranted about how no one follows rules, and people that do are doormats, and I am wrong that following rules is an absolute in Yeshiva.

So, is this all hysteria because he is really worried that he will get a lowered grade or does he really believe this nonsense? And do I have a bigger problem than grades? And will not calling in to excuse him permanently damage our otherwise excellent relationship?

Mimisinger

Thu, Sep 18 2008, 11:50 pm

Do not call in. He's 16, he needs to suffer the consequences.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 12:00 am

I agree. Do not call in to excuse him. He made a choice, he needs to deal with the consequences.

shalhevet

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 2:35 am

I'm with mimi and crayon - he only did it once; he only has to suffer the consequences once...

Also, what about the bittul Torah of switching gemorra for algebra?

Tamiri

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 3:27 am

I am with the other ladies but it's killing me for you son's sake. I feel BAD for him. However, there is no time like the present to learn a timely lesson. Also, if you "lie" for your son, it shows disrespect for the Rebbe. I would not write an excuse for my own kids, but as I wrote: it's bothering me for your poor son. Nebach. Maybe he'll be wiser next time.

mimivan

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 3:48 am

I don't think you will be damaging your relationship with him if you stand by your principles and expect him to bear the consequences of his actions.

In fact, I think he will have even more respect for you. His complaining that others don't follow rules shows a kind of dissatisfaction with the dishonest behavior of others...so set a good example and encourage him to be honest.

HindaRochel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 3:50 am

Joining the choir. He is old enough to make this decision he is old enough to benefit or suffer the consequences.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 6:21 am

I would probably call if he asked with puppy eyes... lol

But not before a GOOD discussion on how I don't want kodesh to be sacrified for chol ever again, and a promise to study seriously was he missed that day.

Cdlf

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 8:35 am

Have your son talk to the Rebbe himself.

greenfire

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 8:43 am

as a mother of a teen dd who has been in bed for 2 days with no real reason ... I say NO NO NO ... they can't decide how the rules of the world goes ... it's a hard knock life and the sooner they realize everything has it's consequences the more apt they are to take responsibility for themselves rather than blaming others ...

I stand behind you & the choir Music

NO NO NO

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 9:26 am

By the way, I don't really think this has to do with limudei kodesh and (l'havdil bein kodesh l'chol) chol. (Sorry, I had to do that. LOL

) I think your reaction should be the same if he had skipped math to study Gemara. Rules are rules.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 9:37 am

Rules are rules, but one shows better priorities than the other.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 9:44 am

Not really. Most students who would cut math to study Gemara aren't doing so l'sheim shamayim, they're doing it because they have a test to study for and they want to do well.

And I still don't think it shows good priorities at all to break rules. Confused

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 9:46 am

Ok, let's say it's again a cultural misunderstanding...

and I never said the last thing, please.

Tamiri

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 9:46 am

So it's better to cheat on a Gemara test than an Algebra one because that's leshem Shamayim? Cheating is cheating.
It doesn't matter if you steal to feed yourself: it's still stealing.
It doesn't matter if you cut Algebra, History, Chumash or Gemara: you are breaking the rules and need to suffer the consequences.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:07 am

Ruchel wrote:

Ok, let's say it's again a cultural misunderstanding...

Why is this a cultural misunderstanding?

Quote:

and I never said the last thing, please.

You did. You said the way in which he cut class would have shown good priorities if it had been for a Jewish subject. I don't think cutting class ever shows good priorities (unless it's to save someone's life, or some other pressing need, of course).

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:13 am

Quote:

So it's better to cheat on a Gemara test than an Algebra one

No it's worse because you didn't learn it

Quote:

Why is this a cultural misunderstanding?

Because I discussed the very topic with friends a few months ago, and they all wholeheartedly agreed... so I'll just say I'm either not expressing it well, or it's cultural.

Quote:

You did.

No........
I said, better priorities to cut chol for kodesh than contrary. Never said CUTTING CLASS is good priorities.

Better doesn't mean good, it means BETTER.

So either all my teachers were wrong with this again, or it's a cultural problem.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:15 am

I don't think any form of the word "good" can be used to describe cutting class.

I mean, yes, it's shows better priorities to cut class than to kill a person, but I'm talking about regular situations.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:18 am

All I said is putting kodesh before chol, even if cutting class is wrong (although it's not a crime, haven't we all been teens? or is it cultural again?), shows, at least, good priorities.

I can do another quick survey around me and report. I bet it's totally cultural again.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:23 am

And I said that I disagree that prioritizing in cutting class can show good priorities at all. Breaking rules is breaking rules, and is the wrong thing to do.

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