Should I call in to excuse him?

Tamiri

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:26 am

Ruchel wrote:

All I said is putting kodesh before chol, even if cutting class is wrong (although it's not a crime, haven't we all been teens? or is it cultural again?), shows, at least, good priorities.

I can do another quick survey around me and report. I bet it's totally cultural again.

Ruchel, I think that's nouveau religious thinking: How to show that doing something wrong in the name of religion (Gemara class) is better than doing something wrong for limudai chol (Algebra) and thus prove a person has his priorities in order.
Old religious thinking says: wrong is wrong.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 10:27 am

Quote:

And I said that I disagree that prioritizing in cutting class can show good priorities at all.

Ok. At least now it seems you understood what I was saying, instead of saying I think cutting class shows good priorities.

Quote:

Breaking rules is breaking rules, and is the wrong thing to do.

I said it from beginning, yes.

Barbara

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 11:11 am

HindaRochel wrote:

Joining the choir. He is old enough to make this decision he is old enough to benefit or suffer the consequences.

Sigh. I really don't know *what* I'd do. The teacher's rules are quite draconian -- losing an entire grade for a semester because of one cut class. Particularly if the boy is right that the other parents do excuse the absences, meaning that only that child will suffer the consequences ... its tough.

*If* this is unusual behavior for the boy, I'd probably wind up excusing him or at least calling the teacher, but I would create other consequences. I'd almost certainly do it if I were convinced that he didn't know in advance what the effect of cutting would be.

Parenting isn't easy, is it?

mumoo

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 12:54 pm

Thanks, Barbara- for the support if not the actual psak...
that's my problem too. It seems a little severe- even though we did know the policy beforehand. My gut tells me to let the school do what they want to do, but my heart (and head) say otherwise.

If it was just the school's consequences, no problem, let them be the bad guy while I sympathize. But saying that a parent can call in to excuse an absence puts the blame on me if I choose not to call. After all, he wasn't cutting class to do anything bad, it was to study for a hard test.

You are right. Parenting is indeed hard.

Motek

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 12:58 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Rules are rules, but one shows better priorities than the other.

I would agree if this was about cutting class to learn Gemara without a test involved. If a child repeatedly cut limudei chol classes in order to learn and did so seriously, I would consider his dropping limudei chol altogether.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 1:30 pm

Motek wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Rules are rules, but one shows better priorities than the other.

Me too, although chol is extremely important, after all there are people made to learn... if it wasn't for parnasa (no decent parnasa here without at the very least graduating hs, and even then it will be very hard if you don't go on - situation may be different in different places, but here basically it condems the boy to either find a girl willing to support long term even if preg, sick, etc... or live on government help - kinda hard to find a shidduch).

mumoo

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 3:32 pm

Update: ds said his overall gradepoint average goes down one point for each class.

So I called the Rebbe.
He said I should excuse the absence this once, as ds thought he was doing the right thing, ie, missing one class he is excelling in to study for a class he is not.

And then the Rebbe will play the bad guy and get in his face with the school handbook, the rules and Rebbe's expectations so there are no more misunderstandings.

I hope its the right thing. I have no problem being the "mean" mother; ask my children, I can be the meanest-I just want to do what's best in the long run.

Ds is a good boy; he didn't skip in order to go to a movie or smoke or cheat or whatever; he just wanted to do well in a class.

greenfire

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 3:40 pm

Motek wrote:

so that he can excel in gemara but be illiterate shock

melbee

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 4:56 pm

Your solution seems like a sound one since it makes sure that he does not get excused without punishment. However, I might have made it so that the conversation I as the mother had with the Rebbe was kept under wraps with DS and told him to go in to Rebbe, apologize, and explain his actions. At that point the Rebbe would do the lecture about responsibility and the handbook, but say since it was a first time offense and the boy thought he was doing it for a legitimate reason he would excuse it (which is I assume is why he is excusing it with your phone call). This way, DS learns responsibility for his actions and you can show that skipping at any time is wrong.

mumoo

Fri, Sep 19 2008, 6:11 pm

Hi, are you related to Shabbatiscoming? Its a good idea to have ds go to Rebbe with apologies and explanations. Unfortunately I can't keep secret the conversation, because I told ds I was going to ask Rebbe the shaila. (ds was not thrilled about that; he thought Rebbe would definitely throw the book at him).

raizy

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 12:30 am

well this brings up memeries. I used to study in dinim class science. and I used to get good grade in science and dinim . no I didnt cut class I used to just focuss on my science and drown the rav out.. I did it to survive. and get good grades in science. and the rav was so boring. and I already knew the stuff... I dont regret it one minete. and yes it really helped my grades. bc I crammed it all in right before the test. ... just a thought on the other side of the fence.

Fox

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 1:08 am

Is it just me, or does it seem to others school rules are increasingly and often inappropriately draconian? The problem then becomes that the individual teachers or administrators don't really have the time or desire to fully or consistently enforce such strict rules, and thus it appears that the rules are being enforced selectively or not at all.

Rather than giving kids practice in accepting responsibility, it simply teaches them that the world is a capricious place where a teacher's mood has more to do with the consequences than whatever is written in the handbook. Of course, whenever I've even broached this issue, the teachers/administrators react as if I've suggested that they abandon all discipline and operate on a hippie-dippy do-you-own-thing basis.

When you make the punishment too outrageous, you simply feed into the litigiousness of our society. Rather than take their lumps, parents and kids start to look for an "out". My 13-year-old twin girls learned a wonderful lesson last week: they made macaroni and cheese from a boxed mix, but they didn't read the directions carefully, and the result was inedible. They felt very bad, but they learned a lesson about following directions that cost a grand total of about $1.50 and will last far longer than most of the "responsibility" lessons authored by their school.

ss321

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 6:48 am

wow. this is a tough one. while under some circumstances, I would say, let them learn from their mistakes, esp at age 16, the punishment seems a bit severe. and its not like he was ditching class to watch a baseball game, or go have fun with his friends. he made a mistake, was irresponsible with time, and now given the consequnces, coupled w/ your strict reaction, he has surely learned his lesson. but to have his grade lowered by an entire letter? I would say just write the note, and tell him sternly "never again." maybe im not the strictest parent on the planet. but then again neither were my parents, so this is all iknow...and im happy with it...

mumoo

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 9:50 am

It had become where if I did call in I was a good and nice mommy and if I didn't, I was the mean one. Again, I don't care if I am the mean mother where warranted, but in these cases, it was more like I was forced to take the school's responsibility and make the judgment (for or against) my son.

I had a long talk with the assistant principal. I told him I would support whatever decision he made but I didn't want to place a judgment on my son's absences. I would call in; that was my job, but it was the school's job to determine the consequence. (I told him imho, I thought the grade lowering was too severe in this case)

So for this case, he felt that Rebbe's intervention was appropriate and sufficient.

I have enough to do determining consequence for home situations; let the school take care of theirs.

greenfire

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 10:02 am

mumoo wrote:

I have enough to do determining consequence for home situations; let the school take care of theirs.

while this is true - the school doesn't always do their job - it's 3 ways ... student/parent/school ... as a parent we must intervene when the school is unjust ...