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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Moral issue-- extra money
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:25 pm
My friend made a deposit at her bank. It was supposed to be for $1,047.83. The teller messed up, and entered an extra zero. She didn't realize until Monday when she checked online, and saw she had ten thousand dollars more than she was supposed to have. Her deposit slip reads 10,047.83. I checked online for her, and it doesn't show anything else. There is no copy of the deposit slip. Does she have to tell the bank they made a mistake?
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leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:29 pm
First of all, the bank will notice the mistake themselves anyway and send a notice with a corrected deposit amount. So it's not like if your friend doesn't say anything, she's going to get away with a nice little bonus. (And what a mess if she spends some of that non-existent money and then it goes poof.)

Second of all, the honest thing to do is bring the mistake to the bank's attention.
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mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:29 pm
Yeah I think she does.
check, though.
Wow, what a nisayon for Elul! I do not envy her.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:31 pm
you sure seem to know a lot about your "friend's" personal finances, have access to "her" online account, etc.

whatever! you're amother anyway!! so now you're "amother's friend."

do the honest thing...
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:33 pm
Do what Phoebe does on "F*R*I*E*N*D*S". Have your friend give it to someone who quits smoking!
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:37 pm
lol I'll quit smoking ... Wink (first I gotta start)

btw- the bank is not stupid ... the error will show up and keeping it - well it's stealing ...
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:43 pm
Original OP here. The "friend" is a close relative.

I used to work at a bank, and this is what I don't get. I was told that audit will catch mistakes. If your drawer is $.20 off, or $20.00, they will catch it later that night. This has been several days. She is not spending the money. (I have already been teasing with what to buy me.)

I was once told that if a non jewish store makes a mistake, and gives you too much change, you are not obligated by halacha to give it back. HOWEVER, it makes a huge kiddush Hashem to return it. I was even told to have my husband return it since with his yarmulka on, it would be more visable and obvious that he is Jewish.

So far, she has done nothing. She is very surprised it hasn't been corrected yet.
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leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:48 pm
It's only been a few days, and a correction is usually sent by mail, so that adds a day or two. Sooner or later, the bank will correct it. She should just pretend the extra money doesn't exist (because it doesn't). Plus it will definitely be a kiddush Hashem if she tells the bank there was an error (and potentially the opposite if she doesn't).
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mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 23 2008, 11:50 pm
amother wrote:
Do what Phoebe does on "F*R*I*E*N*D*S". Have your friend give it to someone who quits smoking!


I stopped smoking....5 years ago...

Yes, this sounds like a typical Elul situation..it would be a huge kiddush hashem to return it and would be a very good argument in the friend's favor before the big "case" (I.e. Rosh Hashana)
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amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 12:01 am
I have to say that I am so glad it is her and not me. I don't feel right giving advice, because my yatzer hora wants her to keep it. embarrassed And she said, what if Hashem decreed last Rosh Hashana that I was supposed to get 10K, and time is running out, so this is how He gave it to me?
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fish123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 12:12 am
its stealing! isn't that assur across the board?
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amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 12:21 am
amother wrote:
what if Hashem decreed last Rosh Hashana that I was supposed to get 10K, and time is running out, so this is how He gave it to me?


Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter
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Tamiri




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 12:39 am
It recently took my bank (in the U.S.) nearly a week to correct a mistake. They will get it, don't worry. I would not call them so as not to mix them up, but I would not touch the money or imagine it's mine, either.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 1:18 am
fish123 wrote:
its stealing! isn't that assur across the board?

Technically it's not stealing if someone gives it to you, even by accident. So no, it's not assur across the board. Although in this case I agree with everyone here, she should notify the bank.
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Mrs. XYZ




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 1:21 am
Quote:
First of all, the bank will notice the mistake themselves anyway and send a notice with a corrected deposit amount


Not necessarily. Yes, at the end of the day there was a discrepency in their balances, but if the deposit was made in cash, how could they know exactly where the error was made? They might figure out by which teller, but how could they know by which customer?
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leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 1:26 am
OK, so first of all -- OP, was the deposit made in cash?

Also, OP, you said there's no copy of the deposit slip. Doesn't the customer always have to fill out a slip that they give to the teller with the deposit? So there should be a record of the correct amount (and it shouldn't take that much detective work on the bank's part to notice that an extra zero was typed in, etc.).
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leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 1:28 am
amother wrote:
And she said, what if Hashem decreed last Rosh Hashana that I was supposed to get 10K, and time is running out, so this is how He gave it to me?


Well, if Hashem REALLY wants her to have it, He will surely reward her for her honesty by arranging something else at the last minute...

Also, about it not being stealing if someone gave it to you, even by accident: there's no real money in her account. It's just an incorrect number and doesn't represent anything real at all.
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Mrs. XYZ




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 2:01 am
yy wrote:
OK, so first of all -- OP, was the deposit made in cash?

Also, OP, you said there's no copy of the deposit slip. Doesn't the customer always have to fill out a slip that they give to the teller with the deposit? So there should be a record of the correct amount (and it shouldn't take that much detective work on the bank's part to notice that an extra zero was typed in, etc.).


Ah, you're right, if she filled out the deposit slip then they have proof. Unless she also wrote it wrong, but then they should have realized it right away.
In any case it would be a big kiddush hashem if she returns it.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 2:58 am
amother wrote:
And she said, what if Hashem decreed last Rosh Hashana that I was supposed to get 10K, and time is running out, so this is how He gave it to me?


Yup, Hashem doesn't have any other ways of giving her 10K than through a dishonest mistake. Maybe she should start a suggestion box for Him. Rolling Eyes

Seriously, you know who is talking here, don't you? (give her a clue that it's not the yetzer hatov). If it was decreed she will get it some other, kosher way. And if not, do you know what happens to money we take when it wasn't meant to go to us? Hashem has to take it back, and it is not always in the best way (think medical bills, broken appliances, smashed up cars etc). When someone steals something and they seem to keep it, if they would have waited they would have got it in a way that is muttar.

Having said all that, if it isn't Jewishly-owned I think it is technically allowed to keep it, but it is pretty much נבל ברשות התורה (behaving disgustingly even though it's technically allowed according to Torah law). Not to mention the kiddush Hashem opportunity others have mentioned.
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ChossidMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 24 2008, 3:22 am
Wow. It's hard for me to imagine that someone would even consider keeping something which doesn't belong to them. Man, oh man, when we get up "there" after 120 we are going to have to answer for each and every one of our actions, technically permitted or not. I don't want an extra penny in my pocket when that day comes (extra = not mine).
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