Barbie Dolls - The Toy

Tefila

Sun, Dec 05 2004, 12:00 pm

The reason I mentioned the toy is some people here claim they are that in real life Twisted Evil

So my daughter is still young. And the other day someone bought as an early Chanukah Gift a barbie for my daughter. Well so far she hasn't seen it, since I've done what Yael does and removed it for a thinking about period! Is it only me that think this doll is Wink

like an 'Avoidah Zorah' . Or is it the fact that a child should be playing with child dolls not adult dolls.
Eigther way am I totaly off base and if so why?

P.S. Atchually when I grew up ( Twisted Evil

and yes it did happen) was a Tom boy and deplored any doll that couldn't move like a real one.... a baby Wink

But now I have a daughter after so many boys I am really happy she is so feminine!! Smile

Rochel Leah

Sun, Dec 05 2004, 12:17 pm

well, some people break off a little piece of the nose or ear so it isnt like avoidah zara...secondly all kids like to role play and they enjoy playing with dolls, fireman etc... I don't think a two year old will get any negative connotations from a barbie doll. they put the barbie doll as a adult role in their games and you could maybe make a point of making tznius clothing for the barbie doll.

sarahd

Sun, Dec 05 2004, 2:18 pm

I personally have a problem with the "prostkeit" (how do you say "prost" in English) of Barbie. Also, her clothes are really untzniusdik and the whole effect is very provocative. My parents (hardly holy-rollers) did not permit us to have Barbies. Actually, we never even asked for one, we just understood we'd never get one. Smile

RachelSteph

Sun, Dec 05 2004, 11:33 pm

I had a few BB Dolls when I was growing up and I really don't think girls need to play with them there are a lot of other toys out there that are just as good or even better. I actually liked them but my Cabbage patch dolls and my little pony dolls were even better because I couldn't compare myself to them and because the BB dolls were just too perfect that I hated playing with them. Actually I heard that the dolls has caused a lot of problems with young girls who strive to be this perfect doll when really she isn't perfect but girls would kill for her body. Mattel has actually changed her Body to look more normal but she still is a tall model with an unrealistic body. If I had a girl I wouldn't want them to play with them especially since it's hard to find some with modest clothing. There is this article that you might like to read I found it interesting I hope you like it too. http://www.aish.com/societyWor.....e.asp
I know someone who is religious and has a little girl who plays with Barbie’s and the Bratz dolls, but this little girl told me that she likes Barbie’s but she doesn't like how she dresses so she is always trying to cover her up like her mommy. She is about 6 or 7 and she likes making her dolls Kallahs, and dressing them all tsnius. I think it's cute but it's also scary because I think she's just growing up too fast. Why can't she pretend to be a doctor or Lawyer? I think she plays house and weddings way too much. What do you think?

Ozmom

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 2:28 am

ok this is my take on it

I don't like barbies for a few reasons

- they are explicit and I have males in the house.

-they give an idea to the kids heavily involved in them as to what their ideal body shape should be. With all the issues with anorexia nowadays, do we have to add to the problem?

-aaah I had a third but I've forgotten it.

that said my daughter also got one as a present freilich, but in my case I didn't see it before her, and after all the begging for one I couldn't take it away, esapecially as my mil gave it to her and was staying with us for a while. I don't allow her to leave it without its clothing, she has to keep it covered

Solution?
If a toy was invented that was s...explicit would there not be an outrage and a call to ban it?

Well this one is plus the added problem of weight issues so why has nothing been done about it?
Am I being extreme?

micki

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 8:39 am

hey lets not bash the barbie doll now! Smile

anyway I grew up with them, I had tons and I loved them so much that even when my little sis plays with them today I still remember their names and I sit down to play with her todya. embarrassed

growing up I never even ONCE thought that this is what I want to be like. I thought I want to grow up a nd be a mommy like barbie but I never thought of her weight. playing with the cabbage patch who is chunky will make girls want to be chunky too? come on!!
the only issue I had was tznius. it actually taught me alot because I would sort through and get rid of the skimpy clothes,a to the point that I even sewed a whole tznius wardrobe for her!
now my girls also love barbie and I have no problem with their playing but as ozmom said- there are males in my house and I insist the dolls must be dressed at all times. also I keep it in the girls room- so unless you really make an efort then no one sees them. we buy the ones that have dresses and shirts and everyone is happy.
kids like role playing as adults- and I love to hear their imaginations talking thru the dolls.

also I think weight issues have to do with the parents not the dolls. if a kid never heard from the parents "I'm on a diet, I want to be skinny" they will never think of it on their own. so if parents ar concerned about their kids growing up with a positive image of themselves then they need to make sure that their kids never hear it in the house either. kids do not try to emulate dolls. they want to emulate role models- aunts sisters mothers etc...

Chanie

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 10:26 am

Now as a mother I can see what is wrong with a Barbie, and I probably would never buy it for my child (so far I do not have to worry about it though, I only have boys).
However, as a child I had plenty of Barbies and never thought of it as anything more then a doll. My need to diet and loss weight came from my classmates and friends, never from a doll or my mother or older sister.
But as I said before, that is not the reason why I wont buy it for my future daughters. It would be more because of the tznius situation because of the brothers. However if she did receive one as a gift I'd probably let her keep it, but in her room. Of course this is all hypothetical since I have no girls.

amother

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 12:32 pm

I think that times have changed and kids are not quite as innocent as we were back then. I also played with barbie dolls and at the time did not pay attention to the body type...however I think that our kids are exposed to so much more nowadays, that they do notice/pay attention to those details at a much younger age. More than just the barbie doll itself, I found that once my daughter (at age 4) was introduced to barbie, all of a sudden, everywhere she went she noticed barbie stuff - and even though you might restrict your buying to only tznius clothes, the temptation is all around - not just restricted to toy stores - so therefore you are banning more stuff from them. If they know barbie isnt an option at all then its less of an issue - I'm also trying to show the materialistic part of it - my daughter all of a sudden saw stuff in every store that she REALLY wanted and PLEASE could I buy etc...
There is always the doll at www.galigirls.com (expensive - but you can buy a regular 18" doll and most stores sell clothing for 18" dolls

Tefila

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 6:31 pm

From what I am understanding from these posts that the reason most are against it is b/c her looks are 'prost' and she is very womanly shaped!
Well that for now was not my question, What I was asking is something that children worldwide idolizes does it fall into the concept of avoidah zara?... I was not asking, conc Tznius issues b/c any doll could be made tznius, and as far as males in the house,, well, in that case all dolls should be dressed appropiatley!
I want to really know if I will be starting something, by giving it to her
Amother ( wish you weren't annon though)
Brought up an interesting view on this

Quote:

I found that once my daughter (at age 4) was introduced to barbie, all of a sudden, everywhere she went she noticed barbie stuff - and even though you might restrict your buying to only tznius clothes, the temptation is all around - not just restricted to toy stores - so therefore you are banning more stuff from them

Another thing is the make-up for dress-up.... maybe outside will also be called dress-up Confused

Motek

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 6:54 pm

Quote:

What I was asking is something that children worldwide idolizes

do they idolize barbies or idolize dolls? and do they idolize them or enjoy playing with them?

and do 8 yr. olds, or whatever age they are, know, or need to know that barbies are sold in the millions?

I had a barbie doll with a carrying case with hangers to hang up her clothes. Did I idolize her? No. Did I long to have her figure? No. Did I think about figures at the age that I played with her? Doubt it.

my grandmother crocheted a dress for her ...

if you agree that girls can/should play with dolls, then the only issue that I can see re barbie dolls is that she has breasts

Tefila

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 7:08 pm

And is constantly wearing face paint. I think my problem is she is an adult doll and maybe[b] my real problem is children should be children for as long as possible. So yes, I think I would like her to be playing with baby or child like dolls instead.Maybe I will send you the Barbie with her clothes to be made Tznius... and give to someone who holds of her, unlike me...what do you think?

Last edited by Tefila on Fri, Jun 10 2005, 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ozmom

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 8:29 pm

this has turned out to be quite interesting.

Quote:

and she is very womanly shaped!

well when you put it that way....I am a womanly shape too and I'm not about to ban myself from my kids LOL

But then again my kids don't get to see me with my clothes off.

In regards to all dolls should be dressed tznius well most of my kids other dolls don't have anything under the clothes except some body shaped cushion covered in material. Even the babies

those of you that spoke about the problem being hearing their mothers talk about diet and losing weight have a point, and I've thought about that.

Ok that Gali girl thing has caught my curiosity so I'll go check it out but really couldn't you take any normal shaped doll and dress it up tzniusly without disshing out a fortune

Oh and the third thing I had forgotten it the concept of barbie representing materialism. But then again you could present it differently for your child.

degoldy .....
please go read yaels guidlines on how to post

micki

Mon, Dec 06 2004, 9:19 pm

hey freilich- barbies do come in other colors. and what wrong with blonde Mad

just kidding. but I usually get the blonde for my older (who is blonde) and brown for my younger who is brown.
neither me nor my kids yearn for anything barbi except for the dolls and clothes etc. this is no different than the hello kitty craze going on.
as to playing w/ children dolls? kids should be kids yes, but they are always roll playing as adults. "you be the mommy I'm the kid" is very common. so why not them have an adult barbie to use? also my kids love the kelley doll who is barbies daughter/sister and they use them as the kids!! they love both.
as to paint? not once did my kids ever mention why is she wearing lipstick- obviously she can't take it off, and I'm guessing they think its normal cause I also wear lipstick!! so why can't barbie?
why make such a fuss over this- its a doll. just like any ohters. she does not represent anything else. only what you want her to be.
as mentioned- all my kids dolls are in their room- I don't need naked anythings babies or adults lying around undressed!
BTW I did hear my kids laughing at a baby dolls not wearing underware. you could see the lines marking the tush. and then they giggled as they brought barbie and my older pointed out that she IS wearing underware. they never even paid attention the the breasts!!
so if you make an issue it will become one. the same way I don't buy everything in sight for my kids, barbie is just included- we don't put her on a pedstel and bow doewn to her

Wink

Tefila

Tue, Dec 07 2004, 1:37 pm

by Chaya Rivkah Jessel Although often at ideological loggerheads, both feminism and traditional Judaism share a common goal -- upholding and ensuring the dignity of women.

Quote:

Their beauty was skin-deep, and white-toned at that. My black sister students felt totally alienated by the Barbie ideal -- her life of leisure and shopping was insipid and empty compared to the very real issues they and most women of color struggled with.

and

Quote:

It wasn't only my feminist consciousness that was switched off that day when I almost gave the dolls to my daughter. My Torah awareness was also not up to standard. How could I play host in my observant home to a doll that looks more like a Playboy pin-up than a child's playmate?

Oh dear I wouldn't go that far puleeeze! shock

Quote:

Barbie is representative of a culture that objectifies women.

In my current environment, Barbie symbolizes everything that I, as a newly observant woman, rejected about Western culture. She is all body. There is nothing about her that even remotely suggests spirituality and internality. She is representative of a culture that objectifies women.

and

Quote:

By not giving my daughter the Barbies, I was giving her a gift far greater in value. I was giving her the ability to be appreciated for her inner being, and not for her outer trappings. I was giving her a sense of self-esteem and independence. I was giving her dignity and self-control. I was giving her the gift of tzniut.

Hm... my mind is slowly and surely... being made up Smile