To be strict or not to be strict

lubaussie

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 6:29 am

Yes, it certainly was a very respectful shabbos meal. Actually, I always liked and ate the food on Friday night, and I was very "into" it on Friday night, so it was never an issue then, but on Shabbos day, I NEVER ate shabbos lunch, (I just can't bring myself to eat meat during the day embarrassed

) and so I remember as a kid resenting the fact that I just had to sit there the whole meal watching everyone else eat! It's not fun as a kid, so I guess at the time I was quite annoyed, but in hindsight, well everything changes, our parents *did* know better... Wink

PinkandYellow

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 12:28 pm

my son is only 3 and we don't have issues yet with this. but one thing I hate, sometimes we go away for a shabbos meal, and as the father says a dvar torah, there has to be pindrop quiet around the table. everyone stops eating and talking as he drones on and on. but I have a 3 yo and 1 yo whom I sometimes have to talk to while the dvar torah is being said. so while I totally agree there needs to be respect and quiet when the dvar torah is being said, I think too many ppl take the kavod thing way too far in this aspect. esp since, as a woman, usually by the time I get to the shabbos meals, I don't have the head space to pay attention to a long winded, complicated, long dvar torah with quotes up the wazoo. ppl are tired: keep it short and simple!

montrealmommy

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 2:40 pm

Tamiri - what a relief to read your post - just 2 shabbosim ago the kids were acting out during kiddush and so they didn't get any which caused endless tears and tantrums. This past weekwe reminded them of the previous week and how we "know" they can act - they were true angels!

I have often gone over this topic both in my head and with dh. I think it's as other immaothers have said - it is about what works for you and what you want to help nurture in your children. For us - etiqutte, discipline, kavod and mentchlichkeit are extremely valuable - so we focus on those. As such my 2 and 4 year old are encouraged to sit/sing shalom aleichem and eishes chayil with their abba, then stand/sit quietly for kiddush - wash and return to the table to wait for hamotzi. dd (only 2) gets reminded to stay quiet but there is no penalty for talking b/w washing and hamotzi as she is only 2 and of her own choice often the 1st to wash. They are expected to stay for the 1st course (or a portion thereof) and then asked to be excused, which they are to go and play/read, etc... the "rule" by us is that some protein and some veggies must've been eaten in order to get dessert. It's always been like this in our home so, although once in a while we get an arguement, by in large this is a lifestyle for my family and no one challenges it.

As for justifying why things are different in other homes, what works for us now (as I said ds is only 4) is to tell him, that is what "x"'s mommy says is ok for him. It would make me very happy if you could sit here for ... (kiddush, chicken, zmiros, etc...) - most of the time he complies with a big smile.

Also, bentching is a muct - but we give them the option of bentching alone or with everyone - either way, once bentched, meal is over!

Seraph

Tue, Dec 02 2008, 8:33 am

I guess I'm the one who wrecks the meal here- my stomach gets so full from the first course that I generally lie down on the couch (same room) for a bit before the next course. Our shabbos meal is very chilled and I like that, but maybe in a few years when my kids are older I won't be liking if they all mimic me...

gryp

Tue, Dec 02 2008, 9:29 am

Tamiri wrote:

I have been pondering this for years: to what point does holding decorum matter? At what point is a parent "too strict" if they insist on certain things?
For example: In our house, we like everyone to be standing around the table when it's time for Shalom Aleichem and Aishet Chayil. We prefer people don't leave the Shabbat table in the middle to go read, or whatever. We like it if everyone stays seated until all are finished with Birkat HaMazon.
We were guests this Friday night at a home where they all sat in the LR to sing Shalom Aleichem and Ayshet Chayil. There were parents and 2 grown (over 20) boys. One of the boys was reading the paper during this time. The parents didn't say a word.
The kids were happy, the parents weren't upset...
Is that better?
We get upset if the kids aren't do it "the right" way.

Tamiri, I agree with you about the proper respect for a Shabbos meal.
I take a different attitude though when it comes to parenting about this. I consider it my/our job to make sure that me kids enjoy the Shabbos meal so much that when it comes time for Kiddush, they come runnning. Smile

They're usually full after fish and salads so as long as they've sung a Niggun, answered their Parsha qestions, and bentched properly, they're free to play. I don't need to enforce this, they happily do it on their own.
I don't believe in holding children hostage in their chairs after a certain point. I know way too many people who were forced to sit through a long Shabbos meal as kids, and now get edgy sitting for five minutes anywhere.
I just think that I better teach my kids to love Shabbos properly so they're not left with bad memories once they're older.
Am I strict about it? Yes. Do my kids feel it? No.