Housework Harridan or Parenting Paragon?

Fox

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 5:24 pm

Recently an “amother” described in another thread how her mother had worked her like a slave during the years she lived at home and how it left her with an extreme aversion to housework. It made me squirm a bit as I wondered if I am guilty of overworking my daughters in the same way. Since many imamothers are in their early twenties and can still easily remember their teen years, I’d like to hear some thoughts to help guide me in striking a perfect – or better – balance.

Here’s the background: I work full-time and then some in a family business. My husband is partially disabled and is unable to even take out trash, etc., and I have no cleaning help. As you can imagine, it takes everyone pitching in just to maintain a state of relative squalor! My philosophy is that everyone should contribute to general homemaking simply because that’s what family members do. I don’t pay kids for routine, day-to-day chores. I do “hire” interested kids to clean our offices, and I have a whole chart and system for that. I try to match the interests of the child with the job – at least as much as possible. Some are more motivated to cook; another likes to fold laundry, etc.

Let me make it clear that I do not routinely take children out of school to do housework, nor is my primary goal to "teach" them to do housework; while I'm sure they'll learn valuable skills, my goal is simply to keep my home running.

In general, I expect each child (whose ages range from 9-14) to spend an average of 45 minutes to an hour each evening on general housekeeping, laundry, cooking, dishes, etc. Based on conversations with principals and teachers’ conferences, my DDs’ schools seem to think my expectations are ridiculous and inappropriate and that I should find another way to “solve my housekeeping problems.” My DDs themselves vacillate: sometimes they enjoy the housework because we often have fun doing it; other times, of course, I’m a terrible slave driver. When I’ve questioned them about how their friends’ mothers manage, though, they admit that most of the other mothers work only part-time and also have cleaning help.

So – what do you think? Is asking for an average 45 minutes to an hour each day unreasonable? Am I scarring anyone for life? Well, I probably am, but am I specifically scarring them for life by making them do too much housework?

Raisin

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 6:29 pm

my mother also worked full time. she did have some cleaning help, but only for the heavy things like hoovering etc.

As a teenager I was expected to: make supper once a week, do some small job every evening eg take out rubbish, wash up, etc and help clean up from shabbos.

I don't consider that I had to help a lot, and I am a terrible housekeeper. Sometimes I think if my mother would have made me clean more I would be a better housekeeper.

I am however a pretty good cook, and enjoy it!

dee's mommy

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 6:52 pm

While I am no longer in my twenties, I do think that children should be raised to help around the house. My parents never really hired cleaning help until I was in my twenties, and so I was theoretically supposed to help around the house. (Wash dishes after supper, sweep the floor, make my lunch, take out garbage, cut the grass, keep my room clean, and help with the dusting, vaccuming, and cleaning the bathrooms.) That may sound like a lot, but many of these things were really a once a week type of thing. Also, my brother was also helping with these things while he was living with us. (Now, I am not claiming that I was a good daughter and did all these things all the time. There were times when I didn't, a fact that I am ashamed of now.)

I don't think anyone is capable of running a household alone, and help is necessary, and I think it is very appropriate for children to have responsibility in the house according to their age and abilities. I don't think that it is too much for a nine year old to make her own lunch, or set the table. Certainly asking a child to wash the dishes after supper is reasonable, or to take out the trash. (Many of these jobs don't really take that long.

Now, 45 - 60 minutes per evening, when written out like that sounds like a lot. (Especially because I am assuming that they have homework as well.) I know after a long day of work, the last thing I want to do is laundry, cooking etc: in other words a second shift. It is probably the case that children who have been in school all day, and then have homework on top of that also feel the same way. I personally remember having several hours of homework a night in high school. When I was good, I would be doing dishes, making my lunch and taking out garbage on schoolnights. Perhaps having the children "work" a little less time, like the average being 30 minutes of assigned jobs. Then, on Sunday, or days when they don't have school, perhaps could be major cleaning days.

I don't know what your financial situation is, but perhaps in this case, hired cleaning help would make a difference. If not once a week, every two weeks, or every three to four weeks to get the really hard and big jobs done, and the family could do the general maintanance?

I hope this didn't come off sounding preachy. That was not my intention at all. I hope this helps.

gold21

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 9:16 pm

It really sounds like a lot of work for kids. I vote 15 min of housework a night. They should most definitely pitch in, they shouldnt become spoiled brats, but an hour sounds like too much.

Can't something give? So what if your house doesn't look perfect? Mine looks pretty messy. Its not such a big deal, really.

Kids today have their fair share of stress, from crazy amounts of schoolwork and crazy peer pressure. They need the evenings to chillax.

My opinion.

Very cool of you to ask, by the way.

zaq

Wed, Dec 10 2008, 9:41 pm

Fox, INVU your organization and system, if not the reasons that make them essential. I don't go by time, I go by assignments. what your kids do is much more than most, but most do way too little and many unfortunately do nothing at all. An hour a day sounds like a lot, but with your dh disabled, the rest of the family has to pitch in more. fact of life. If your school disapproves, let them consider housework to be your children's "chessed project", with the recipient of the chessed being their father.

There's no good reason why an elementary-age child shouldn't be doing his own laundry and dishes, making his own bed, setting/clearing the table, making a salad...I don't know that I'd feel comfortable with their making dinner unsupervised, but why shouldn't they help with the preparations if they're capable? They help with the eating, don't they?

What's important is that housework not adversely affect schoolwork or health or eliminate any possibility of a social life or relaxation time. If grades are suffering, or the kids aren't getting enough sleep, or if they can't participate in any extracurricular activities, or have no time at all to just veg out, then they are working too hard and you should consider either hiring occasional help or lowering your standards a bit.

Are your standards realistic given the size of your household and their ages? Can various chores be done a bit less often without threatening health and sanitation? are your kids reallly doing an hour's worth of work, or dragging their feet so a 20-minute job takes an hour? What shortcuts can you introduce that will reduce the time spent on chores while allowing basic needs to be met? There are shmillions of time-management and household-management books and websites loaded with time-saving, work-reducing tips. I suspect you already have many in place, but you can always find new ideas.

umm...I hear you talking about your Dd's chores, PLEASE tell me you only have dds and no sons?

RachelEve14

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 1:19 am

I think it's hard to tell from your examples. It *sounds* like a lot, but then I though, hey, it might really not be. I mean it takes 30 minutes to wash / dry dishes (depending on how many of course) and then 20 min. to put away a load of laundry or 2, then that's 45 min. right there.

What are the kids doing? I see a difference in them doing things for themselves and doing things for you. Telling your 14yo to iron his / her own shirts is perfectly reasonable. Telling him to iron your clothes and dh's clothes also may be going overboard. Having your kids mop 1x a week for Shabbos seems reasonable, having them clean bathrooms 3x a week is not.

I had to make my own bed, keep my room neat, prepare my lunch, do my own laundry (including wash / dry / fold / put away) from when I was 12. We also had to clear our places and load / unload the dishwasher. Then there were other random chores depending on the time of year etc (raking leaves, taking out trash, shoveling snow, etc). My mother might have asked me to vacuum a few times, but it wasn't a regular thing.

What else would your kids be doing? If it's taking away from learning & schoolwork it's different than if your kids can finish their schoolwork and learn an extra seder by 6pm, and they are sitting around in the evenings playing games. How about looking at the whole picture, what they are doing, what needs to be done, and see where you can tweak stuff.

Good luck Smile

HooRYou

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 1:45 am

I am not in my 20s and I didn't have to help a lot in the house, but I think there are other factors to this issue that could make a difference aside from the time. What stands out most in mind is your attitude toward your DC's help. I am not arguing with requirements you have for them to help but with how you view it. Are you thankful? Do you tell your children how much you appreciate the help? When a child does a job and it is good but not perfect or not as well done as you could have done (Or a different child) do you complain and point out the imperfections? As you mentioned most of us don't even mind doing tedious work if it is made fun. A lot of us also don't mind doing less pleasant jobs that make us feel appreciated and complimented.

bandcm

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 8:37 am

RachelEve14 wrote:

I disagree completely.
Kids need to spend time sitting around playing games! It's as important, if not more imortant, than schoolwork.

And a 10 year old should not have to wash and dry a sinkful of dishes and then fold a load of laundry on a school night.

RachelEve14

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 8:48 am

bandcm wrote:

RachelEve14 wrote:

OK, by saying they were done by 6pm, I was implying (but I should have stated outright) they have time for games *and* housework. If they are done with school / learning at 6, they do 45 min. of chores, have dinnner at 7 & then after dinner they are free for a couple of hours. I'm assuming at least the older kids are going to bed around 10, so if they have 4 h ours of time a night after school / learning is done, 45 min. of chores isn't too much. If they aren't finished with schoolwork until 9, then they have to do chores, then I agree, it is too much and you should back off on the chores.

gryp

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 8:50 am

Fox, I agree with some others that it's more your and your kids' attitude towards the whole thing than the actual work they're doing.
If the kids are resentful, missing out on being with their friends, aren't getting their homework done properly, you know something's wrong.
If you're overly critical of their work, end up doing the job they were supposed to do over again, don't show your appreciation, they'll resent it.
I don't think any of these things happen under your care, from the way you sound in your posts, so I'd think you're doing just fine.

As long as there's enough time from when they come home from school until bedtime to do other things than housework, I don't think there's a problem.

ChossidMom

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 8:57 am

45 minutes to an hour sounds like a lot to me.

In my house, I also do not have cleaning help and my husband only does things on occasion (when he feels up to it - health issues). My 13 year old son comes home between 6 and 7 and I usually do not ask him for any help as he also deserves to relax a bit. I think I ask him and the others for real help twice a week. Once mid-week and on Friday. The other days the house looks lousier. I have to cut corners.
Even when I do get them to help I usually ask for 10 minutes and they get an awful lot done in that time.
I don't ask for help with the laundry. I do all of it myself. They do stuff like picking up clutter, making general seder, sometimes - sponja. I do the dishes.

RichWithNachas

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 9:42 am

with lot's of traffic, thereis always going to be a need for a clean up crew. I think the answer depends on the age. Older children can definitely do that amount of work and I don't think it's slavedriving. Time moves quickly, and cleaning up takes time.
My older daughter actually expressed pride in the fact that she used to helping while many of her freinds are spoiled and will have a hard adjustment after marriage.
So you can look at it both ways
To me it would seem that a better system would be more by the job rather then by the time.

zaq

Thu, Dec 11 2008, 10:22 am

bandcm wrote:

And a 10 year old should not have to wash and dry a sinkful of dishes and then fold a load of laundry on a school night.

whyever not? I was washing dishes when I was in kindergarten. Maybe not a restaurant-sized sinkful of dishes, or a family-with-company-on-a-YomTov-size load of dishes, but for a family of 4-8 people having a modest supper, a 10-yr-old is more than capable of handling that. and if it's his laundry he most surely can and should fold it. With help for sheets and tablecloths, of course.