help-my 4 yr old is so difficult

Aspiring mom

Sun, Jan 22 2006, 10:42 pm

I have a delicious 4 yr old who can be so demanding. I'll give some examples. She is still not toilet trained as she has a strong mind of her own. Bed time takes 3 hrs-she manipulates constantly. Her clothes get a drop wet or dirty I have to change them. When I give her food she wants a new plate and utensil since it is dirty with food. She drinks from a straw if I pour more drink with the straw inside she needs a new straw. She is very bright but has lots of emotional issues and educational. She is in a special ed program. Next year her school suggested an inclusive special ed program which is 18,000 dollars. When she is not upset about something she is so happy she dances and sings away. She has an awesome sense of humor. I just started talking to a phone coach about my daughter. To start this is my daughter and I need to relax.

Tefila

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 12:21 am

Quote:

Bed time takes 3 hrs-she manipulates constantly. Her clothes get a drop wet or dirty I have to change them. When I give her food she wants a new plate and utensil since it is dirty with food. She drinks from a straw if I pour more drink with the straw inside she needs a new straw. She is very bright

I hope you won't get mad at me for saying this but she sounds abit spoilt Confused

like if she gets wet or dirty why r u changing her most if not all 4 yr olds can change themselves Exclamation

And concerning new utensil u tell her a) then you go get it yourself or b) Explain that food always makes plates dirty otherwise it wouldn't be food Exclamation

Why is she drinking from a straw Confused

in my home it's used as a treat not a religion.... no way hosay!

It sounds like she as most 4 yr olds try to do since I have and had many who try that too. Try to manipulate you have to set ground rules be firm and if she flys into a fit well thats life but you have to be strong otherwuise she will end up manipulating you way more then she is doing now and unless one has a physical handicap c"v or some real issues then just from what you are describing do not give into her. 3hrs till she falls asleep sounds NUTS . Don't give her a choice choose a bed time routine and keep to it. Tell her you will spend some time with her at bed time wether it's 15 min or 1/2hr but after that you expect her to be sleeping and if you have to use stronger measures like no mitzvah note for Morah then go right ahead. For her sake you have to take charge!!!

bgk

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 2:42 am

Aspiring mom wrote:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly my 4 year old son - mamash a copy of your daughter. Could be it was something in the air when we were pregnant with them?

bgk

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 2:52 am

I let my son do what he wants if it's not dangerous, so at least I know he is not nervous. And I'm trying slowly take of his diaper. We are already by the pishing in the toilet and no diaper in school. He gets very nervous about it, but I try to change his mind to something else that moment when he gets angry on me about diaper.
About food - I' trying really hard to ask him before giving him food what he wants, in which plate etc. And I let him choose everything by himself. This way he is more come. Also because he usually gives me hard time about food I gave him and he doesn't want it, so I wait for him to come back from school, I'm asking him what he wants and I let him cook by himself. I'm not joking - he cooks for everyone cereal, macaroni, rice etc. Everything by himself with me just standing next to him and watching his safety. This way the life is much easier for us.

Bed time for us - it's the whole story. SO I put him to bed before everyone and giving him tike to take off his energy before everyone will go to bed. He has to sing all the songs from MIami boys choire (he is a big fan of them), it takes him more that an hour and only then he is going to sleep. And I let him do it.
May be I'm not right, but this way the life is much easier for me and for him.
And yes, when he is in the good mood he is the sweatiest child in the family, with a very good heart, always worried about his siblings. And also he looks so much like me and my family, it makes my love to him even more strong with all his shtikcs

Aspiring mom

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 9:19 am

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

I hope you won't get mad at me for saying this but she sounds abit spoilt Confused

like if she gets wet or dirty why r u changing her most if not all 4 yr olds can change themselves Exclamation

And concerning new utensil u tell her a) then you go get it yourself or b) Explain that food always makes plates dirty otherwise it wouldn't be food Exclamation

Why is she drinking from a straw Confused

I do make rules and she is very strong willed and doesn't want to change herself. The phone coach I use says to treat her like a 2-3 yr old since emotionally she is not a 4 yr old.

Aspiring mom

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 9:20 am

bgk wrote:

Aspiring mom wrote:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly my 4 year old son - mamash a copy of your daughter. Could be it was something in the air when we were pregnant with them?

Lets talk!

happymom

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 9:40 am

as far as I have seen most (if not ALL) four year olds are like that! Its important to not allow them to manipulate and show them who the mother is... and that she MUST listen... otherwise its not good news. In a loving but firm way they need to be taught this! otherwise... they will learn to just manipulate and get whatever they want, which is not good for them. Do you have charts for bed time... When I used to put my little sisters to sleep I would tell them that if they would go to bed right away they would get a story. when they didnt listen the DID NOT get a story no matter how much they cried and tried to manipulate (as most kids do...) they learned quickly that I mean what I say and they listened much faster. this goes for anything. if they see you do not change your mind and give alot of possitive attention for listening but not alot of negative attention, theyll get the point.

elisecohen

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 12:05 pm

My immediate take was also sensory integration issues. She may not be trying to be willfull--she may really react to all these things. The feelings of wet, cold, slimy, or scratchy things may be overwhelming her. This can cause trouble going to sleep (the feeling of the nightclothes and bedsheets, the noise level too high or low, the lights too high or low, smells in the room, or just plain trouble winding down from too much neuro stimulation during the day), potty training (the sensations are unpleasant to her), eating obviously, and so on.

You mention she is in special education--maybe you can give a little more detail? Is she getting a lot of OT (maybe she should be)? Do you do some sensory stim/desensitivity activities at all (brushing the skin, brushing teeth gently before eating, swinging, vibrating toys, weighted blankets etc)?

Aspiring mom

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 12:19 pm

uandme wrote:

sounds like maybe some sensory issues. like, tactile defensiveness. look into OT, an ot can tell u some things to do at home that can help integrate these issues
or pm me

She has sensory issues and she has ot,pt, and speech in school. I think maybe obsessive compulsivity is coming out.

Aspiring mom

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 12:20 pm

elisecohen wrote:

Sounds interesting maybe you could tell me in more detail about the activities.

elisecohen

Mon, Jan 23 2006, 12:46 pm

You definitely only want to do these after conferring with her OT because you don't want to overwhelm her more or waste time with what she doesn't need. Many children with sensory integration dysfunction respond well to these therapies. Brushing is using a very soft brush--the kind you get in the hospital to use on a newborn--to stroke the skin gently but firmly, always in a downward motion (the way the hair grows). There is a whole protocol to the order to be the most calming. Gently brushing the teeth with no paste or anything before eating can reduce sensory defensiveness orally and enable children to tolerate food textures, flavors, and temperatures they wouldn't take otherwise. Swinging and using weighted vests/haloes etc help orient the child and reduce overstimulation. Weighted blankets can be used for sleeping or just resting to provide appropriate neurologic stimulation and response allowing a restful state (ever have the feeling that you wanted a heavy blanket on you even though you were warm enough--you just liked the feeling? Well, imagine feeling that all the time but multiplied).

There's a great set of books by Carol Kranowitz, The Out-Of-Sync Child and The Out-of-Sync Child has Fun. They're the standard parental texts on the subjects, pretty available at libraries and bookshops. They explain how sensory integration affects every day life for children and what you can do about it so you can at least start somewhere and know what questions to ask. I would definitely talk to the school OT about whether there are things you can do at home that might help her because that will also help you!