What's it like for non-lubavs in CH?

hey its me

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 8:01 pm

I grew up chabad, and was living in ch as a single girl, when we got married (my dh not chabad) we decided to start off in ch to be next to my bro.

We were living there for 3 yrs and it really wasn't the nicest experience! my dh always felt out of place in shul (he tried quite a few shuls) the worst was one shab am when he was on his way to shul and some guy called out to him "hey are you aware you are not wearing a lubav talis"my dh always took comments with a pinch of salt but it bothered me a lot!
It also bothered me that we lived in a all frum buliding and never once got a shabbas invite!!!there was one family who were VERY nice and friendly but I cannot say much about the rest...

greenfire

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 8:08 pm

hey its me wrote:

it's interesting to hear that others had this problem ... everyone bugged us when he would grow a beard or wear a kappotah - not to mention they would always say his divrei torah were wrong because the Rebbe says something else ... instead of just simply adding their divrei torah ... I couldn't believe this of people I respected ...

TzenaRena

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 8:34 pm

Greenfire, and hey its me, sorry you both has those experiences, but I'm thinking that it could be that people didn't realize that your husbands were not Lubavitchers. If someone is a Lubavitcher, and bought a tallis that's not according to Lubavitch minhag, I could see someone pointing that out, same as if I'd see a friend who is buying something that isn't Cholov Yisrael, because it looks the same as the CY product, I'd point it out.

As far as the divrei Torah, it would be a very normal response, to inform a Lubavitcher that the Rebbe says something different, you could basically expect to hear the Rebbe's take on any inyan discussed.

By our Shabbos table, my husband likes to bring up questions on the Parsha that he has, and challenge our guests, usually Yeshiva bochurim for an answer. Some of these bochurim are quite learned, they invariably know a sicha where the REbbe has asked this question, and answered it, or what meforshim say, etc. I guess my husband doesn't care if a young bochur knows something he doesn't, he's certainly not offended, the more divrei Torah, the better.

greenfire

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 8:38 pm

hearing the Rebbe's take on an inyan is nice - but w/o saying your d'var torah is wrong ... see the difference ...

and believe me they knew he wasn't lubavitch ...

bubby

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 8:51 pm

Sorry, there's room in this world for folks of every persuasion. I didn't grow up Lubavitch & it bothers me when people are so rude & "elitist". Yes, I think being a Lubavitcher is the best, but Satmar says the same, so do Litvish etc etc. And anybody who gives a DT is welcome in my home!!

amother

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 9:05 pm

I have to tell over a nice story about CH. DH and I are yeshivish, definitely not Lubavitch, but we were in CH once for a couple of days for DH's work. It was spring, but there was an unseasonable cold snap and it started to snow. DH, who from his accent is clearly from out of town, did not have an overcoat, just his suit jacket. A man, a total stranger, walking down the street saw my DH shivering as he walked along. He stopped my DH and asked where his coat was, in a good-natured joking kind of way. DH explained that he was in town on business and hadn't brought a coat, not expecting this kind of weather in April! The man INSISTED on giving DH his winter coat off of his own back, saying that he had an extra coat at his house around the corner. DH said he thought the guy was mamash going to put him in a headlock if he didn't accept the coat! (Needless to say, DH returned it the next afternoon on his way to the airport!) We don't necessarily always agree with everything about Chabad philosophy, but I will be the first to say that the selflessness and ahavas yisrael of the typical Lubavitcher is extraordinary, and something which I personally aspire to.

pecan

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 9:38 pm

The truth is that I've been living here for ten years and haven't made one friend.
I am not ruling out the possibility that it may be my fault for being busy with kids and work, etc. But it's not the same heimishe feeling as living in a small community.

bubby

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 11:20 pm

Pecan, I can't believe you haven't got any friends in CH!! Perhaps you're not making an effort to meet people...there's a mommy & me group which has a lot of amothers (my DD goes) or there are golden oldies like me. Don't you go to a shiur or to shul or to any events like KSCVK, or talk to your neighbors??? Most people are friendly; only a few bite!

chocolate moose

Sat, Jan 10 2009, 11:25 pm

Pecan, there's plenty to do in CH. If you daven at a shul, make it a friendly one for yourself and your kids. There are a lot; PM me if you don't know any.

There are exercise classes at BLY & the Mini Gym for adults. The neighborhood has many shiurim & many chessed activities. Not everything cost money.

Are you friendly with those on your block/in you building/mommies in your kids' classes ? There are many ways to make friends.

Butterfly

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:01 am

I am not Lubavitch, and yet, I have a tremendous respect for Lubavitch Chasiddus. I guess part of it is because I lived and grew up amongst the Lubavitch community in CH, during my childhood years, up until I got married.

It's been already over 25 years that I moved away from there.. So did my family and friends..
The neighborhoods were changing quite drastically, families were selling there homes as a result, and within a couple of years, almost everyone has moved away.. The only ones that stayed at the time were mostly Lubavitch. The Rebbe insisted that his Chassidim stay, and so CH was spared a complete destruction at that time.

We were from the latter to move away, because my father was a Rav, had his own private Shul, with at least 3-4 minyonim Davening there every Shabbos and Yom Tov. During the High holidays we would have apr 5 Minyonim/50 men, and apr 50 women Davening in our Shul. But once the people started moving away, it became impossible to maintain even one Minyan, so my parents had no choice, but to move away from their/our beloved neighborhood too, and rebuilt somewhere else.

But those good memories from CH, will forever be with us, for my siblings and myself, as it was for my Dear Parents ZT"L.

And LUBAVITCH will FOREVER have a special place in my heart..!

During my times in CH, there was not only Lbvtch. There were all kinds living there from many different Chassidus as well. Lbvtch was the the largest in population though. I guess it was because Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L together with his Chassidim built his dynasty their.

"Lubavitch", was thee center of CH during the time. Their huge Bais Hamedresh at 770 Eastern Pkwy inhibited the largest population of the CH community, and was a very special place where so many Yidden/Jews, even non Lubavitch, and from different Chassidus, especially the ones living in CH. felt a certain connection. Everyone was always welcome there, always!

There were other Rabbi's and their Chassidim living in CH during those wonderful times. Eventually they too moved away and rebuilt their dynasty elsewhere, e.g. Bobov, Kerestir, and more.. There were lots of Belz, Satmar, Klosenberg, Ger Chassidim, and more living there as well. Basically, all, or at least most of the schools provided bus transportation to the schools and Chedurim/boy's schools during those times.

When the first Skulener Rebbe ZT" arrived to the U.S. after he left Romania, his first residency was in CH, where he lived for apr 20 years. He had his Bais Hamedresh/Synagogue on Crown St. at the corner of Brooklyn av. He attracted a large crowd, from all different Chassidus, non Chasidim as well, and also Lubavich'er Chassidim joining him at his marvelous Friday night TISCH'EN/get togethers..

CROWN HEIGHTS WAS OUR HOMELAND WHERE WE ALL "EVERYONE" FELT LIKE ONE BIG FAMILY!!

I remember my very Chassidish parents (unofficially?? semi?? Lubavitch??) Very Happy

and myself, and many more none Lbvtch, like Belz,Ger,Satmar and more.., joining the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L and his Chassidim at the Farbrengen's during those beautiful Shabbas afternoons.

My father was the only one wearing a Shtreimel, and seated at the first table, amongst the well respected Rabbi's of the congregation, right behind the Rebbe ZT"L.
My mother was the only woman/Rebetzin who wore a very Chassidish Levush.. and felt very comfy nonetheless, as it didn't matter to anyone. They were well respected regardless, B"H.

I will never forget the special feelings that we felt when the Rebbe was saying Divrei Torah with such power and emotion. but for me the clim@x of the Farbrengen was every time the Rebbe would exchange LECHAIM's/CHEERS with the crowd Cheers

It was so amazing.
During that time the crowd would sing very "lebedig"/cheerful Music

The Rebbe would nod his head to and fro,and do certain movements with his holy hands, and the crowd would sing at the same pace according to the Rebbe's movements. If the Rebbe's head and hands moved swiftly, the crowd would become so high, singing and clapping their loudest! The walls were almost shaking. The feeling was so full of Ruchnios. It was so beautiful and so Spiritual, beyond words can tell.

I don't know the mentality of the Lbvch community nowadays in CH. But I sure miss those beautiful Achdus times we experienced during my times.

I cannot imagine that it has really changed that much, if at all.. What

. The Chabbad movement sacrifices so much to all kinds of people throughout the world, why would anyone think that they would treat anyone differently in their own home town.. Scratching Head

Last edited by Butterfly on Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total

avigailmiriam

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:12 am

Butterfly wrote:

Shamefully, families started selling their homes to non Jews

That's not shameful, it's the law. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion when selling or renting housing.

Atali

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:15 am

avigailmiriam wrote:

Butterfly wrote:

Shamefully, families started selling their homes to non Jews

That's not shameful, it's the law. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion when selling or renting housing.

OTOH, it is halachicly questionable to do so.

Butterfly

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:33 am

You are so right Avigailmiriam.
Just that you know.. I didn't feel comfortable, and sort of felt quite discriminative as I was writing that line... I will edit it right away im"y.

Thanks so much.

Last edited by Butterfly on Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 2:44 am

removed

Last edited by gz on Wed, Feb 27 2019, 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total

Raisin

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 6:01 am

avigailmiriam wrote:

Butterfly wrote:

Shamefully, families started selling their homes to non Jews

That's not shameful, it's the law. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion when selling or renting housing.

the shameful thing is is that they sold their houses because they didn't like the colour of the new neighbours. I'm sure you've heard of white flight.

pinktichel

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:55 am

hey its me wrote:

It also bothered me that we lived in a all frum buliding and never once got a shabbas invite!!!there was one family who were VERY nice and friendly but I cannot say much about the rest...

Was the building made up of mainly young couples like you and your Dh? If so, that would explain why you never had a Shabbos invite (not that it makes it ok...) You have to realize that most young couples have family/friends in CH who invite them for Shabbos. Before I had my first, we rarely ate at home. We took friends up on their offers as well as my parents!

Once I had my first, I was home often for Shabbos but didn't have guests too often. I was exhausted and my husband was in kolel earning just $300 a month.

TzenaRena

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:01 am

Atali wrote:

avigailmiriam wrote:

Butterfly wrote:

Shamefully, families started selling their homes to non Jews

That's not shameful, it's the law. It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion when selling or renting housing.

OTOH, it is halachicly questionable to do so.

It's not questionable, it's assur to sell your property to someone who may present a danger to Jews or their property in a Jewish neighborhood. That's in Shulchan Aruch. It may not be PC, but it's the law, and it's illegal - against Shulchan Aruch- to sell your home to someone who may pose a danger or "just" cause damages to other Jews. Choshen Mishpat 175:40.

There is also a similarity to the law in Hilchos Shabbos.

Quote:

Nochrim that beseiged Jewish towns... and there is reason to suspect that they will endanger lives, even if they didn't come yet, but are approaching, one takes up arms and goes out and violates the Shabbos, over them.(Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 329, ARSA same, se'if 6)

Quote:

And during these times that we live amongst the nations who pillage and kill, even if they didn't come for anything but money, we violate the Shabbos, because if the Jew will not allow him to rob and steal, he will kill him, and it is a chazakah that a person doesn't hold back when his money is involved, and we must be concerned that someone will fight him off and kill him, thus it concerns lives."(ARSA se'if 7)

. The Rebbe notes that we are obligated to violate the Shabbos because it is pikuach nefesh, but if it is during the week, we are obligated to take up arms even if it's just for defending Jewish property and money, and there is no reason to be concerned about actual pikuach nefesh.

TzenaRena

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:13 am

Butterfly, what a beautiful post! I'm sure I "know" you from those days.

TzenaRena

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:23 am

bubby wrote:

Tomorrow there's a Jr. N'shei event! someone is going to give out all the secrets of getting organized, decluttered. Do you go to Jr. N'shei meetings? You can meet, get to know lots of people your age! (ranges from newlyweds to thirty plus). I've never gone to one, but their programs sound great.

gryp

Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:34 am

Butterfly, I loved your post! You made my morning. Smile

Pecan, I started making friends once my kids were school age. I met so many other mothers that way. And at the park.

We often see people coming to 770 as if it's an attraction.

To the amother whose husband was given the stranger's coat off his back- The same thing happened many many many years ago to my fil as a bochur, and the "stranger" then was none other than the Rebbe himself. Smile