Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Can Chareidim be Yuppies?
1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 5:51 am
Or maybe this thread should be called "Can Chareidim be Yuppim?" LOL

Disclaimers: This thread is all about labels..which in reality are noting..but sometimes this stuff can be interesting, as long as it doesn't get ugly...

So I know of a certain neighborhood. Very American. Very Charieidi. Many people have money. Some are "professionals" (I.e. computer programmers, architects, adminstrators etc..)but I just don't think of them as Yuppies..

I know another neighborhood. Mixed American Israeli, Mixed Chareidi and MO and not religious. Mixed classes...but someone described it as "full of yuppies." (maybe because it is filled of fancy coffee shops and little boutiques)

So what makes neighborhood A not Yuppy (but rich and American) and neighborhood B be called "Yuppy?"

When I was growing up, Yuppy meant "Young Urban Professionals" But there are Young Urban Professionals in both places. Is being a "yuppy" a mindset or a fashion?

I think what makes a Yuppy is the emphasis on consumerism, the latest toys, restaurants, how people spend their time as well as money...Chareidim spend less of their time and money doing these things, so I guess they might seem less "yuppy" even though they might be young and have professions..Although I have met some chareidim who seemed to be into consumerism somewhat...

What d'yall think (and try to avoid exchanging gunfire.. LOL )
Back to top

Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 7:31 am
Of course they can be, but I don't think that simply being rich makes one a yuppie.

The frum yuppie types are the ones who have to have designer furniture (paid for by their parents, of course), dress their toddlers in designer clothes, and eat out at the most hip mehadrin restaurants twice a week.
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 7:41 am
Atali wrote:
Of course they can be, but I don't think that simply being rich makes one a yuppie.

The frum yuppie types are the ones who have to have designer furniture (paid for by their parents, of course), dress their toddlers in designer clothes, and eat out at the most hip mehadrin restaurants twice a week.


by definition (Young Urban Professionals) those cant be yuppies! those are just kollel couples who think they are "entitled" to live off their parents. Usually neither has anything more thank a Bachelors with said Bachelors beinglike a "BTL" for the guy, or a BA from maalot or similar insitution for the girl. sure, their lifestyle is abhorent(sp?) at best, but all they are is "spoiled." theyre not professionals
Back to top

Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 7:50 am
ss321 wrote:
Atali wrote:
Of course they can be, but I don't think that simply being rich makes one a yuppie.

The frum yuppie types are the ones who have to have designer furniture (paid for by their parents, of course), dress their toddlers in designer clothes, and eat out at the most hip mehadrin restaurants twice a week.


by definition (Young Urban Professionals) those cant be yuppies! those are just kollel couples who think they are "entitled" to live off their parents. Usually neither has anything more thank a Bachelors with said Bachelors beinglike a "BTL" for the guy, or a BA from maalot or similar insitution for the girl. sure, their lifestyle is abhorent(sp?) at best, but all they are is "spoiled." theyre not professionals


Except that some of them are. A boy can become a professional with a BTL and a girl can become a professional with a maalot degree. But for the most part you are right, perhaps we need a new term.

How about: Fllopies (frum living luxuriously off parents income)
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:11 am
Atali wrote:


How about: Fllopies (frum living luxuriously off parents income)


Perfect.

Youre right, a BTL can get you into law school, and Maalot can get you a career as a graphic designer, speech therapist, etc. But they USUALLY dont pursue those careers while living in Israel.

The year or two of living in israel while "the husband learns" (usually "in the mir" although there are exceptions) are reserved for "living the high life" as was described. Luxurous 3 bedroom apartments (for a couple with no kids mindyou) in "Machal," "maalot dafna," or the like, biannual trips down to eilat, flying home for the shalosh regalim plus a siblings wedding, bar mitzvah, upsherin, graduation, tea party etc, eating out at posh restaurants... and....9 months into it, kids dressed in the finest dior baby, bonpoint, etc. Which dont even have to be "imported" by mommy when she comes to visit and help set up after the baby, they can be conveniently purchased on kikar hamedina.

To clarify: I dont have a problem with ANYONE living such a lifestyle, so long as they are paying for it themselves, not "living luxuriously off parents income."
Back to top

Tzippora




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:14 am
ss321 wrote:
Atali wrote:
Of course they can be, but I don't think that simply being rich makes one a yuppie.

The frum yuppie types are the ones who have to have designer furniture (paid for by their parents, of course), dress their toddlers in designer clothes, and eat out at the most hip mehadrin restaurants twice a week.


by definition (Young Urban Professionals) those cant be yuppies! those are just kollel couples who think they are "entitled" to live off their parents. Usually neither has anything more thank a Bachelors with said Bachelors beinglike a "BTL" for the guy, or a BA from maalot or similar insitution for the girl. sure, their lifestyle is abhorent(sp?) at best, but all they are is "spoiled." theyre not professionals


I love people who like education!!!!
Back to top

Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:19 am
Tzippora wrote:
ss321 wrote:
Atali wrote:
Of course they can be, but I don't think that simply being rich makes one a yuppie.

The frum yuppie types are the ones who have to have designer furniture (paid for by their parents, of course), dress their toddlers in designer clothes, and eat out at the most hip mehadrin restaurants twice a week.


by definition (Young Urban Professionals) those cant be yuppies! those are just kollel couples who think they are "entitled" to live off their parents. Usually neither has anything more thank a Bachelors with said Bachelors beinglike a "BTL" for the guy, or a BA from maalot or similar insitution for the girl. sure, their lifestyle is abhorent(sp?) at best, but all they are is "spoiled." theyre not professionals


I love people who like education!!!!


education does not = yuppies. my parents both have phds and are very far from being yuppies.
Back to top

NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:20 am
Totally.
Back to top

Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:21 am
ss321 wrote:
Atali wrote:


How about: Fllopies (frum living luxuriously off parents income)


Perfect.

Youre right, a BTL can get you into law school, and Maalot can get you a career as a graphic designer, speech therapist, etc. But they USUALLY dont pursue those careers while living in Israel.

The year or two of living in israel while "the husband learns" (usually "in the mir" although there are exceptions) are reserved for "living the high life" as was described. Luxurous 3 bedroom apartments (for a couple with no kids mindyou) in "Machal," "maalot dafna," or the like, biannual trips down to eilat, flying home for the shalosh regalim plus a siblings wedding, bar mitzvah, upsherin, graduation, tea party etc, eating out at posh restaurants... and....9 months into it, kids dressed in the finest dior baby, bonpoint, etc. Which dont even have to be "imported" by mommy when she comes to visit and help set up after the baby, they can be conveniently purchased on kikar hamedina.

To clarify: I dont have a problem with ANYONE living such a lifestyle, so long as they are paying for it themselves, not "living luxuriously off parents income."


That is what I am saying, there are too types here:

Fllopies: What you described. I really don't get this lifestyle. My husband learns and would therefore not want to do any of these things, it would be bittul Torah, but whatever, to each his own.

The frum yuppies I was referring to are more commonly found in America: frum professionals who primarily reside in Brooklyn who eat out at fancy restaurants regularly, dress their kids in designer clothes (like $200 upsherin outfits as discussed in the other thread), drive BMW's, need to live in luxury houses or condos and go to the most exotic pesach hotels every year, etc.

I would imagine that many frum yuppies were floppies when they first married.
Back to top

ABC




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:26 am
--

Last edited by ABC on Sun, Jul 05 2009, 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

Mrs.K




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:29 am
Please don't judge. You never know which kollel couples get no parental assistance and simply work very very very hard and save.
Don't assume that because I live in Machal I eat at expensive restaurants, tour the country, or have been in America any time in the past 3 years.
Back to top

Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:45 am
Mrs.K wrote:
Please don't judge. You never know which kollel couples get no parental assistance and simply work very very very hard and save.
Don't assume that because I live in Machal I eat at expensive restaurants, tour the country, or have been in America any time in the past 3 years.


This is a very important point. There is no reason why a kollel couple should have to live on a bare-bones budget. Many times the wife has a decent job or they have very wealthy parents who are happy to help. Trust me, I am the mod of the kollel forum and am certainly not out to bash the kollel lifestyle.

The "fllopies" I am referring to are people who are essentially using "learning" as an excuse to live off their parents for a few years and have an extended vacation in Eretz Yisrael (and Europe, etc). If they are touring Europe and eating out a few times a week when are they learning? Also, if they would learn to live on less their parents money would last longer and they could learn for longer as well.
Back to top

Mirel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 8:51 am
ABC, I agree with you 100%. When we start labelling these people and looking down at them, it stems from jealousy and jealousy only. So lets look at ourselves, and see where we err and what we have to fix and stop looking and judging others. Hashem is the judge, and believe me, He does a fine job!
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:13 am
Is anyone a yuppie anymore? I thought that was an 80s thing.

"Hareidi" doesn't really work with "yuppie" in my mind. Sure, technically hareidim can be "young urban professionals," but it's a whole culture, one that hareidim (and almost all frum Jews, IMO) are never really a part of, being too immersed in their own culture.
Back to top

mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 11:53 am
actually, I heard to term recently...(described about the cafe neighborhood)..It's like being "cool" adults..having all the nicest "toys" all the latest things, vacations...etc..

I also heard it used about a chassidishe guy recently who had a fancy wine event in his home (for kiruv) I thought it was a bit unfair since this guy was just doing this for kiruv, but anyway, I guess that is how his neighborhood is characterized (and shluchim are different...they may try to "speak the language" of those around them without internalizing their way of life).

But I could see a "yuppie" verson of chareidim, but in a way of mitzvah-related expenditures...having the best etrog, the most exotic Pesach getaway, the nicest spot in the bungalow colony, extravagant simchas, top sheitels...

the fact that some Rebbes are putting limits on extravagant simchas shows that it is a concern...

so maybe there are chareidi "yuppies" after all?

(I'm not pointing fingers..I don't care how other people live...I just get a kick out of being an armchair sociologist sometimes)
Back to top

freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 12:49 pm
There are certainly charedim who live a rich lifestyle..there always were. but once upon a time it was done very discreetly and today much less...to call them "yuppies"? Well what's the definition? Urban? they are urban, young? they are young. Professionals? Professional what? There are some who work very hard and are professionals in their profession and have a lot of money. But there are those, as mentioned here, whose parents have a lot of money and shtup their kids with it so that the kids can live a very luxurious lifestyle...they have all the latest gadgets - but not movies and like but in the kitchen gadgets, appliances, blackberries, or blueberries or whatever that thing is called, and that kind of stuff. They often don't have cars but use taxis right and left and eat out and have designer clothes, that is yuppie. They go on vacation all the time just like "yuppies" do and they have their gyms and all the rest.

What is a charedi? The levush? So their wives have yuppie charedi levush...the lifestyle of torah? Does Charedi mean it is synonymous with poor? Certainly in many cases but there are those where it is not...are those yuppies?
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 5:44 pm
ora_43 wrote:
Is anyone a yuppie anymore? I thought that was an 80s thing.

.


Just what I was thinking being a professional went out a long time ago because it means you actually have to work hard for your money, even before you start earning it. First it was the tech boom then that went out, then it was real estate and hedge funds and unfortunately those are out too these days.... Stay tuned for a whole new set of sociological classifications in the coming months.
Back to top

mamacita




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:17 pm
I picture tennis playing, polo shirt wearing, sweaters tied around the shoulders for the authentic 80s yuppies. I have seen charedim who seem to fit that bill, expensive clothes and the like.

Atali, you made me LOL with the fllopies. Too, too funny! hehe! Even if my parents had the resources to mooch off of, I'm too independent to do so. (I say while wearing my mom's skirt I borrowed from her closet, hehe)

If there can be hippie Jews, why not Yuppies? Smile The groups I think of as hippie I wouldn't also think follow the hippie principles. (I used to be more hippy when I was in college, so I use the term with affection and not disdain)
Back to top

avigailmiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 9:30 pm
mamacita wrote:
I picture tennis playing, polo shirt wearing, sweaters tied around the shoulders for the authentic 80s yuppies. I have seen charedim who seem to fit that bill, expensive clothes and the like.

Atali, you made me LOL with the fllopies. Too, too funny! hehe! Even if my parents had the resources to mooch off of, I'm too independent to do so. (I say while wearing my mom's skirt I borrowed from her closet, hehe)

If there can be hippie Jews, why not Yuppies? Smile The groups I think of as hippie I wouldn't also think follow the hippie principles. (I used to be more hippy when I was in college, so I use the term with affection and not disdain)


I'm a hippie jew! Very Happy
Back to top

mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 11 2009, 10:02 pm
cassandra wrote:
ora_43 wrote:
Is anyone a yuppie anymore? I thought that was an 80s thing.

.


Just what I was thinking being a professional went out a long time ago because it means you actually have to work hard for your money, even before you start earning it. First it was the tech boom then that went out, then it was real estate and hedge funds and unfortunately those are out too these days.... Stay tuned for a whole new set of sociological classifications in the coming months.


Yes, I edit a financial blogger who thinks, because of the current economic situation that conspicuous frugality in the 2010s will be what conspicuous consumption was in the 80s...it will be a bizarro world where people will brag about the great stuff they found at Salvation Army, will think people who don't reuse teabags are "uncool" etc... LOL
Back to top
Page 1 of 3 1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Looking for matzah cheaper than Chareidim but thin, tasty?
by amother
13 Fri, Feb 09 2024, 7:40 am View last post