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chavamom

Sun, Feb 01 2009, 11:26 pm

yy wrote:

chavamom wrote:

yy wrote:

unless you're just saying that you noticed it too?

Yup! I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere either.

Should we alert the news agencies?? 8)

Why yes dear Watson, I believe we should...

Wink

leomom

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 12:33 am

So which agency should get the scoop, um, Sherlock?

leomom

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:00 am

Chavamom, we've been scooped!

This is from a commenter to an article posted on the ABC News website:

Quote:

Amaycatbaker:excellent question.So here is an alternative scenario:Hypothesis #1:The "grandfather" David Solomon aka Doud Suleman ( with Edward added for good measure) is listed as the father of the older 4, that is, the one born in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. Let's say that instead of being her father, as he claims, he is her husband, and she is the second wife, as is common in Iraq but illegal in the US. She changed her name just shortly before that, from Doud to Soleman: was it the time she "married" Suleman? Where did she do a name change; on tourist papers? on a green card? on a passport?WHAT IF THE CHILDREN WERE CONCEIVED NATURALLY THEN?Next :Then, she "married"Gutierrez: why: did she NEED citizenship? A green card? She claims infertility, and insists that the babies be born by IVF, as the marriage is a sham, arranged for convenience, and paid for handsomely., with the understanding that there will be no s-xual relations ( as a good Muslim, that would be forbidden for sure). Moreover, she doesn;t even live with her "husband", instead, continuing to live with her "parents", in particular the father of her other 4 children, DOUD. Since he is an old man and she is in her 20's, it is not inconceivable that she is totally turned off, and refuses to have normal relations with him, which compels them to claim infertility by then, and demand IVF.So in 2006, by IVF this time, she gives birth to twins.After 2 years plus some have elapsed, she claims for divorce . Earlier would have aroused the suspicions of the authorities.Meanwhile her "father"divorces her"mother". Why?? At any rate, those last kids have not been shown to be the children of Doud Solomon on paper, although it is claimed that the father of the IVF kids is the same as all the other ones, TRUE OR NOT/ IF true, then Doud Solomon is also their fatherAnd finally, the 8 embryos are implanted after the divorce from Gutierrez. So now Doud Solomon has 14 children.ANOTHER SCENARIO, hypothesis #2:Question: do Angela and Doud have other children? In Iraq? Or is Nadya the only "daughter"of Doud? If there are no other kids, maybe he married her because his first wife couldn't have any kids, in fact Angela was the infertile one, and Nadya is only a SURROGATE PARENT, A WOMB, FOR THIS OLD, CHILDLESS COUPLE?Maybe DOUD is the DEEP POCKET WHO PAID FOR THE SURROGACY? Maybe that is what is meant by "she is being paid to have babies?. Maybe that is why she accepted the 8 fetuses, albeit at great risk to her?Do not forget that very often, SLAVES are imported to America under the guise of being relatives, by Arabs.Who is to say that this is not a case of SURROGACY.?Maybe Nadya is not even from Iraq. Where is she from? How do we know she was not hired by the old couple to have their children?Just thoughts, hypotheses.

It is thought-provoking! This theory may be crazy, or it may not be. But you can't help wondering!

tovarena

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 11:24 am

I originally wasn't going to reply to these comments due to the context. But I just have to ask...

ganizzy wrote:

but anyways which frum women would go for ivf with twin 2 yr olds not to mention 4 other kids under the age of 8.

Are these two separate questions - which frum woman would do IVF with 2 yr old twins? And as an additional question, 6 kids under 8? I can't speak to doing IVF with 6 kids under the age of 8, but IVF with twin 2 year olds?? Salut

Check! I know a few, myself included. Why is it so hard to comprehend? Remember there are many various reasons why a family will choose to try again quickly. Could be they went through many cycles last time before finally succeeding and are concerned it will take a few again. Could be the woman is getting "older". Could be they want to have a large family. Could be they're doing it before certain insurance coverages expire. Who knows what reasons exist, but each family certainly has their own cheshbon that could cause them to try again sooner than you might expect. Even with multiples. Even with higher order multiples.

ganizzy wrote:

one thing that bothers me is if ur going to put in so much effort to have kids and u "love" having kids so much - then why are u in school a whole day? whos looking after ur precious children that u love and did ivf for???

Is this just in reference to this particular situation or are you saying that if you've done IVF, there must be a stay-at-home parent?

Many people work full time, do ivf or other assisted reproductive treatments, and then afterward hire a nanny or babysitter and go back to work. Why? Because many have either put themselves into debt or, at the very minimum, have used up all their life savings, doing these treatments. As a result, couples can't afford the luxury of having a full-time stay-at-home parent. And if they had waited until the could afford the treatments AND been able to lose one income, they might never have become parents.

Does that mean these parents love their children any less? Mad

Mama Bear

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 1:57 pm

Tovarena - a frum blogger friend of mine is doing IVF now and she has ONE YEAR OLD TRIPLETS. I couldnt talk her out of it. She said her life is not going to get easier when the triplets are older.

chocolate moose

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:39 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Tovarena - a frum blogger friend of mine is doing IVF now and she has ONE YEAR OLD TRIPLETS. I couldnt talk her out of it. She said her life is not going to get easier when the triplets are older.

Mabye we should poll that. I think life is easier when kids are older and in school most of the day.

Raisin

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:48 pm

tovarena wrote:

I originally wasn't going to reply to these comments due to the context. But I just have to ask...

ganizzy wrote:

but anyways which frum women would go for ivf with twin 2 yr olds not to mention 4 other kids under the age of 8.

ganizzy wrote:

I'm sure you can see the difference between having one set of twins and a husband and between having a set of twins, 4 older kids, and no father, apparantly.

And does the clinic you use implant so many embryos anyway?

Inspired

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:54 pm

Raisin wrote:

And does the clinic you use implant so many embryos anyway?

A clinic doesn't "implant" embryos, it transfers them.

chavamom

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:57 pm

I noticed today that all the news reports are now refering to Edward Doud Suleman as "the apparent grandfather". That's a change. I think maybe the blogger is on to something or the news agencies suspect he's on to something. This story just gets weirder and weirder.

ganizzy

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:09 pm

tova rena I thought people may misunderstand me - I am not against people working and leaving their children with babysitters if they need to. but this women is claiming to love kids, has 6 under 8 yrs old, and is a proffesional student.

so even though she loves kids shes leaving them witha babysitter but not even to make money!!!

frumluv

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:16 pm

Just saw this on People.com

http://www.people.com/people/a......html

chocolate moose

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:23 pm

Wow.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:27 pm

It's called an L&D team even if there is no labor?

tovarena

Mon, Feb 02 2009, 9:12 pm

Raisin wrote:

I'm sure you can see the difference between having one set of twins and a husband and between having a set of twins, 4 older kids, and no father, apparantly.

That's why I asked ganizzy if she was referring to this specific situation or in general.

Raisin wrote:

And does the clinic you use implant so many embryos anyway?

I doubt they would but I would never have even considered 8 at a time, so I can't say as it's ever come up.

ganizzy wrote:

That's why I asked for clarification. Clearly, something about this whole story stinks. But on the judging favorably side, I read the student part that she is going for an advanced degree to bring home a better income. That could be completely wrong - but at this point, it's all conjecture.

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

It's called an L&D team even if there is no labor?

It's still a delivery so why not?

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Feb 03 2009, 12:02 pm

I would call it the delivery team, not type out "labor and delivery team"...semantics, I know Wink

chavi

Tue, Feb 03 2009, 3:02 pm

[quote="chocolate moose"]

Mama Bear wrote:

Tovarena - a frum blogger friend of mine is doing IVF now and she has ONE YEAR OLD TRIPLETS. I couldnt talk her out of it. She said her life is not going to get easier when the triplets are older.

Since the decision of when to try for another is between the couple and the couple ONLY, why do you think you need to talk her out of it? Don't you think people can make their own life choices?

tovarena

Tue, Feb 03 2009, 4:13 pm

Raisin wrote:

And does the clinic you use implant so many embryos anyway?

Okay, so I just thought I'd share this interesting email that I just received today from my dr. that coincidentally addresses just exactly this question:

Quote:

Sent Date Feb 03, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject Octuplets
Message Hi All,

As you may have read or heard in the news, a 33 year old woman in California recently gave birth to eight babies (octuplets). The reports stated she conceived through in-vitro fertilization (IVF). I'm sending out this note to allay the fears of some of our patients who have expressed the concern that this may happen to them through our IVF program.

The IVF process involves having a woman take fertility drugs to stimulate the production of multiple eggs. Once mature, those eggs are retrieved from her body and fertilized with sperm in the laboratory to create embryos. In our program, we transfer an average of TWO embryos into the woman's uterus with the anticipation that ONE of them will "stick" and create a pregnancy.

At the xxx Center for Reproductive Medicine, we highly individualize/personalize each patient's care. Therefore, depending on her history, there may be circumstances under which we transfer one, single embryo to the uterus, and on occasion we may transfer more than two embryos. An example of a history that may dictate the need for a single embryo transfer would be a woman who was born with only half a uterus (yes, we've seen this) or a woman with a medical condition that may rapidly deteriorate if she was pregnant with twins.

An example of a history that may dictate the need for more than two embryos to be transferred would be a 41 year old who failed several prior IVF cycles during which only two embryos were transferred. As a generalization, though, we don't typically transfer more than 3-4 embryos in women of "advanced" reproductive age.

One of our greatest IVF goals, then, is to achieve a healthy, singleton pregnancy. An embryo can split into two babies AFTER it is transferred to the uterus, but this is a relatively uncommon event. Placing eight (or more) embryos into anyone's uterus goes against sensible medical care and deviates from the published national guidelines set forth by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) and the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technologies (SART).

Having practiced as a reproductive specialist for about 20 years to date, I assure you that I am as appalled over this case as you are. Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions regarding the information herein.

Be well!
Dr. xxx

Mama Bear

Tue, Feb 03 2009, 9:01 pm

1.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ame.....0.stm

2.

http://www.google.com/hostedne.....DFIG0

Mama Bear

Tue, Feb 03 2009, 9:31 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH.....Video

miriamnechama

Thu, Feb 05 2009, 8:50 am

imagine 6 brissim / chalakas/ barmitzvas at once....

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