Using Gifts to Pay for the Simcha

Tefila

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 11:30 pm

Quote:

and yes we bring our kids to NY and do a mini bar mitzvah approx 80 people mainly family and with that they get all the gifts they recieve

I wonder if you read that.
Even though we demand alot from our kids we also do give them alot - as much as we can afford, besides love etc and them speaking to friends know it and appreciate it.
And rydys it is common amongst the fruma world in this situation to ask b/4 hand for a portion NOT ALL to help cover the cost.
What do people do for baby gifts for Brisim or kiddushim don't tell me they only use it for baby toys nessecitys etc b/c I don't believe it, infact I know they don't. How about helping cover the cost of bringing out of town a mohel etc etc etc
Remember we don't force them we tell them when they need spending money or stuff within reason we give it to them!
Anyway this is my feel and my way of thinking and until I win the lottery I will continue to think this way. Smile

sarahd

Mon, Jan 10 2005, 4:49 am

I hear what Freilich is saying, but a parent should be very sure that their son doesn't feel resentful or pressured into giving money to his parents. As far as using baby gifts for other purposes, the situation is not comparable, as 1) the baby is a minor not an adult, as a bar mitzva boy is, so it has no say over what is done with the money 2) the gifts are generally given to the parents, not the baby and 3) the baby is not exactly aware of what's happening with the money and will not resent it being taken away.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2005, 4:13 am

[quote="freilich"]

Quote:

and yes we bring our kids to NY and do a mini bar mitzvah approx 80 people mainly family and with that they get all the gifts they recieve

Then don't do it you have to know your strengths and abilities of what you are able to afford and what is not worth going into debt for you are not making a wedding. And if your son still wants to go into ny then you have a right to say we can't afford this and if you want you can pay for your trip down and you will pay for assuming only your husband would go with the bar mitzva boy. You have to be practical no?

zuncompany

Sun, Feb 13 2005, 9:30 am

People use the money the baby recieved for the bris or things outside of for the baby? Maybe I am nieve... I always used my tax return. I never even considered the money the boys were given our money. We did use it to get things for the kids we couldn't have gotten otherwise that they needed like a crib matress for Tev, and a stroller for Zu. The rest was put into bank accounts for them. Yes, we had to pay for or mohel to come from out of town, and yes it was more expensive. But we did it simple- bagels, veggie platters, etc... No fancy bakery goods or anything. It was so nice! Everyone was commenting for weeks about how nice it was. The upsherns we will make something nice, but something that won't break the bank. We live somewhere where even though we aren't shluchim, don't worry... everyone comes cause upsherns don't happen every day and Zu's will be log b'omer. We prob. had 200 at the bris, but guess what- we spent under a grand for food. I think we spent $400 for Tev and I could have cut down more. His whole bris cost me about $950 with a mohel from out of town. For the boys bar mitzvahs we will make a sit down kiddush seudah. I can bake the challah rolls, I can make the salads, I can prepare the chollents. We can get deli platters. Invitations- email! I can make a meal for close family in our home Shabbos night and motzei Shabbos.

Freilech- I understand your situation. The kids are happy to help. Totally cool. Thats their choice though.

sara

BasHashem

Sun, Feb 13 2005, 6:23 pm

we pretty much had to beg borrow and steal to pay for our first sons bar mitzvah(and it was very simple), the fact that we arent finacialy well off is no fault of my sons. He was able to keep his money. I made him buy an investment with most of the money and put the rest in the bank. This year when he wanted that 200 dollar palm pilot, he was very proud to use his money to buy it, as the digital camera, disc man and bike. he only uses his money with our permission.

I am so happy he is able to have the things we could not buy him.

Our next's son's bar mitzvah is not far off, and we will be borrow and steal to pay for it, and he too g-d willing will keep his money.

BasHashem

Pearl

Mon, Feb 14 2005, 10:33 am

my father (this is of course post war) was not allowed to keep the presents for his bar mitswa. he was really traumatized by it, and made a neder to pay all of his own simches, which he B"H did (including his own wedding...), so we didn't pay for our bm and wedding.
however, in israel it's common for guests to give money, cause they know the parents/chatan and kallah have to pay for the event themselves...
with the chupa we had in israel, we weren't left with a single shekkel....
having a kosher event here costs a fortune, and we did keep it simple, but still.... and we had to bring a mohel from another country. we had to pay the bris with money we got as presents. my husband had no problem with it, (b/c that's the way he's used to) but I was very uncomfortable with it. however, we do have saving accounts for the children, and also we received a lot of non cash gifts, as is more costumary here (otherwise we probably would have been left with a nice amount to put on baby's saving account!).
+ boy was child nr. 3, so B"H we didn't have a lot to buy for him (the "large" stuff, like crib, bed, stroller - we all received as gifts before)
I guess it's a very personal thing, and very much depends on the situation.
I hope and pray we will be able to pay for all the simches iyh ourselves, and not to have to "take" money from our children.....................

Last edited by Pearl on Mon, Feb 14 2005, 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total

1stimer

Mon, Feb 14 2005, 10:42 am

1 baby's gifts - some people give money because they want to give something that you (parents) will be happy with - we used this money to buy stuff for baby. others gave money to baby - we put that in savings for him
2 bar mitzva - people give the money to the boy I think he should keep it if he is happy to give to parents than that is his choice.
3 wedding - I think parents who can't afford to make wedding can tell their kids to pay for their own wedding as long as the kids then get to decide how to make the wedding.

shayna

Wed, Feb 16 2005, 7:11 pm

my son's bar-mitzva is in 3 1/2 weeks and he is having a big kidush in shul then motzie shabbos a big party which is what my son really wanted. This barmitzvah is costing us close to 10,000 outfits, invitations, caterers etc. it really adds up. My daughter got 1,000 in gifts for her bat-mitzvah, so we told our son he can also have 1,000 in cash and all the other non cash gifts. My son is more than happy to take the offer he didnt sigh or argue, he heard 1,000 and had a smile on his face. (we are also having 2 catered meals for out of town guests fri night)

I don't feel anyone can really judge until they too go through this situation, b/c 3 years ago before I knew ho costly it would be I to thought all the cash would go to him, I also have another bar- mitzva to make in 11 mos. A"H.

There is no right or wrong answer everyone needs to do what is good for them and their family.

Regarding Chasunas I think the money should go to the newlyweds b/c they are starting out, where as my children always has us to depend on , we pay for their clothes, food shelter,etc. any money my children make with jobs they do they keep.

WOOOOOW I never typed this much on any thread Rolling Eyes

hisorerus

Wed, Feb 16 2005, 9:15 pm

I take more issue with the price tag on the Bar Mitzva ($10,000!!!) than on taking some of his money... I think my wedding cost less!

Isn't there some sort of limit on how much to spend on Simchas, especially if (like in your case) you don't have that much money to throw around?!

shayna

Wed, Feb 16 2005, 10:14 pm

hisorerus wrote:

Don't think, ask who ever paid for your wedding and I never said I don't have the money to throw around. If I would have made it cheaper for example a small kiddush in shul on shabbos then he would get no gifts.

I don't know if you have ever made a b.m. but anyone out there who has please give your input on how much you spent and what kind of function it was.

shayna

Wed, Feb 16 2005, 10:57 pm

One thing I forgot to mention, there are no gemachs for bar-mitzvahs, and when I say that much money I mean for all the preperations as well,
even for a chasuna, add up the money for cuputas, sheitels, sheva brocha outfits it all adds up its not just the party its the before stuff as well.

Tefila

Wed, Feb 16 2005, 11:59 pm

Sara then how much did your wedding cost?
Bar mitzvahs run that amount especially when you have to cater for that many more b/c of ones position in that community. I make my own invites contemplating doing that this time for benchers but it still costs.
Whoelse here has done bar mitzvahs lets see how we could've spent less. C'mon we are not the only ones Confused

hisorerus

Thu, Feb 17 2005, 12:46 am

Who says it has to be catered? My brother had a beautiful Bar Mitzva in the local Chabad House, home-cooked food, 150+ guests, no bentchers, invitations done at Kinkos, and he got more than $1500 in gifts. What's the point of not catering it "so he'll get more gifts" when you're just taking the money away from him regardless? And who says that the entire family needs to buy new clothes?

We cut down the catering costs by my wedding, serving "family style" instead of individual plates, and hiring a cheaper caterer. I did not buy an expensive gown, but went to a Gemach, and chose one that didn't require alterations. I didn't buy expensive shoes, just sneakers that I wear all the time now. The wedding would have been much cheaper if not for the photographer, which my in-laws chose and paid for! $4000 catering, $1500 hall, $1000 music, $500 invitations (with stamps), $500 gowns/clothes, $1000 shaitel, $500 flowers, $250 bentchers, and I'm not sure about the photographer. But this is for a WEDDING, for goodness sakes!

Maybe consider donating $5000 to Tzedaka in honor of the Bar Mitzva boy and making a simpler party?

[I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the feeling in society that engenders this type of spending.]

shayna

Thu, Feb 17 2005, 10:48 am

First of all we can't cook the food in our shul it has to come from a reliable place with a Montreal hechsher. Number 2 I have 7 kids (6 mos,5 yrs,7 yrs, 10 yrs, 12yrs, 13, and 14 all by the age of 33 K"H) I would not attempt to cook all the food 1 mos before pesach.

As for gft money my son is walking away with 1,0000 in cash I spoke to other parents who let them keep more and regreted it b/c the child spent it on "nothing" and to make him save it it is as if he doesnt have it. When you have a barmitzvah and walk in the shoes of the ones who had to go therough it then you can give advice.

Your brother got 1500, I live in Canada 1,000 is equivelent so how is my son loosing out again?

But I am open to suggestions like freilich regarding anyone who has made one and cut corners b/ I have another one in 11 mos. A"H Very Happy

hisorerus

Thu, Feb 17 2005, 11:10 am

Nope, $1000 Canadian is LESS than American, but good try Very Happy

Do a Bar Mitzva brunch, with bagels and lox and the works, buffet-style on a Sunday mid-morning. Even if you go generous with a dessert table and a band, you're still paying a whole lot less than for a sit-down catered evening!

As I was telling my students (not frum yet), the important part of a Bar Mitzva is the BECOMING a Bar Mitzva, not the party.

hisorerus

Thu, Feb 17 2005, 11:13 am

Incidentally, a good way for the boy to be able to spend the money but make sure it's not on "nothing" is to let him spend as much as he wants (just kidding, within reason) on Sefarim. Every boy I've met LOVES having tons of Sefarim, even if they can't learn them yet.

Are you planning on letting your son spend his $1000 CAD on whatever he wants? Even "nothing"?

shayna

Thu, Feb 17 2005, 11:27 am

actually I am letting him spend it on whatever he wants, Luckily my children always ask if its worth the money they are purchasing as for this particular son he is not a spender, and will probably have his money for a long time. We have have guests comming from out of town atleast 50 so I cannot fit them around my dining roon table, it only seats 16, so we have to have a catered meal fri night, shabbos lunch and the music at the bar mitzvah is only 100. by a teenage boy. We did try to do cheaper we are not big spenders to begin with, it just all added up. suits, hats I did not get a new out fit and my little girls got 17.00 outfits. We didnt buy my son a new suit yontif b/c we new we had to get him one for the bar mitzva. The hall and caterer costs about 5000 the invitations were 500, hats, and suit another 500 clothing and hats are expensive in montreal. 2 catered shapbbos meals another 2000. And that is the cheapest, there is no sweet table jst a piece of cake for each person.