schools!! in TORONTO

amother

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 5:50 pm

I did not say, that by sending to Chat you're guaranteed that your children will go off the derech. Chat does not have a Torah based Hashkafa. It is very Jewish, into Israel, the holidays etc., but keeping Halacha and Shmirat Hamitzvot, is not a priority of the school. Growing up in Toronto, I had a few friends who changed to that school in mid-highschool, they did not end up being shomer shabbat. I would say it is very similiar to Yeshiva of Flatbush - very traditional. For alot of ppl., it is better than sending to public school, because it gives them a Jewish identity, but if you want more than that, it is not the place.

amother

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:36 pm

I have never heard CHAT being called a MO school. The kids are not at all, in the most part, Shomer Shabbos. I mean not at all. The feeder schools for CHAT are USDS (Conservative), Associated (more on conservative; most are not Shomer Shabbos); and Bialik (not even davening; strictly Labour Zionist). Never mind Yeshivish, they are mostly not religious at all. The reason it gets sort of fuzzy and confusing is because the admin and the teachers of Limudei Kodesh are Orthodox. However, the clientele is not.

If you want your kids to play and be friends with other Shomer Shabbos kids, never mind yeshivish or the like, then CHAT is not the place. I know that there are some families who have sent their kids to CHAT, but they are definitely the very minority. Darchei has gone through growing pains, but now it is a great boys' school. Kind of middle of the road. Eitz Chaim also is middle of the road. OHR CHAIM is another good option- more zionistic and academic.

Anyhow, wherever you decide to send your kids, I wish you great success and I hope you really like living in Toronto.

Marion

Tue, Feb 17 2009, 1:12 am

A little bit of history:

CHAT & Associated used to be the only schools. Period. (Associated started as an afternoon Talmud Torah, and CHAT grew out of Associated.) Along came USDS (Solomon Shechter), Bialik, and Leo Baeck (Reform). Along came Eitz Chaim and Beis Yaacov, and whatever the equivalent boys' school(s) there is for Beis Yaacov. So you had options for the less frum, the extremely frum, and the "we love everybody" middle of the road frum. The MO sent to Associated, because Eitz Chaim was "too" frum, and anything else wasn't frum enough. Then sometime in the mid 1980s (I was in grade 2) Netivot opened its doors. Now Netivot is the MO school. They feed into the Bnei Akiva high schools (Ulpana for girls and Or Chaim for boys). Eitz Chaim feeds (and always has) into Beis Yaacov high school (for girls)...I have no clue where their boys wind up. Now that the frum community has so much choice, the other schools have become watered down. You can't complain about the quality of the kids in a school when you would *never* send your own child there because...whatever your reason is. It's like people here who complain about how bad the public system is and then pull strings to get their child into the best private school they can('t) afford. Of course, if you take out all the "good" kids, the rest have nothing to aim for, and they'll remain mediocre. Same thing in Judaism. If the non-frum kids have no role models (their age...who wants to be like their teachers?) then they'll stay where they are, or do even less. I became frum because of my friends, not because of my teachers. Although I was probably still a lot more observant than many of my classmates when I wasn't "frum".

Boys"R"Us

Tue, Feb 17 2009, 8:51 am

Eitz Chaim feeds mainly into Tifferes, Bais Yaakov and Ulpana - for girls. For boys, it is mainly Darchei, Or Chaim & Ner. In those orders. There are a very few who do go from Eitz Chaim to Chat, but it is the anomaly.

Netivot which is MO and has shifted slightly to the left in recent years, has its graduates in about a 60/40% split, going to Ulpana/Or Chaim, or to CHAT.

~Debbie

Emee

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 1:07 pm

Marion wrote:

Amother above me, CHAT is a community school. It is fed into by ALL the schools in the city, including the public schools. But to say that to send your child to CHAT is a guarantee that they'll go off the derech is simply not true, and it's diba ra'a/motzi shem ra.

I don't think she was saying that they'll go off the derech fro sure it's just not a frum school. That is a fact you can call the school and ask them. They don't claim to be a frum school nor does associated. If you are looking for a frum school then these are not options.

Boys"R"Us

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 11:04 pm

moomoo wrote:

I heard that one campus is MO. We will be in next week, and check out the options. Thanks!

Whoever told you that is just plain wrong.

I think CHAT is a great school, but it never was and never will be categorized as MO.

If you want people to talk to, I can put you in touch with parents from any of the schools we discussed.

PM me if you want my #.

~Debbie

JRKmommy

Tue, Feb 24 2009, 12:26 pm

I'll have to ask my friends about the new principal. We had been debating Ulpana vs. CHAT around here - CHAT is more convenient for us but I had some concerns that it had been drifting from what is what like 20 years ago.

As mentioned, Associated and CHAT are both community schools, meaning that AS A BASIC PRINCIPLE they will accept any Jewish student. Davening is part of Associated, the children learn about mitzvot, and there is some religious feeling (although they will use the terms "traditional" or "Torah" as opposed to "Orthodox"). CHAT used to be more right-wing 20 years ago, when dh attended. Today, they have students from a wider variety of backgrounds, much better facilities, larger enrollment, and the Judaic studies tends to be more "academic" in nature - meaning that the focus is on learning about all aspects of Judaism, but not necessarily on being shomer mitzvot.

I know graduates of both schools who are shomer mitzvot, and who are not. For some, it depended on their family background. I know several who became BT, including DH. I can't think of any of dh's classmates who intermarried.

realeez

Wed, Feb 25 2009, 8:50 am

JRKmommy wrote:

I can't think of any of dh's classmates who intermarried.

When dh was in med school, he met a ton of Chat grads and he was really impressed that they had a strong sense of being Jewish and a lot of their activities were with their group of Jewish friends. Like even if they were going to a non-kosher restaurant, it was still with their Jewish group.

Marion

Wed, Feb 25 2009, 8:59 am

realeez wrote:

JRKmommy wrote:

I can't think of any of dh's classmates who intermarried.

Important to note: The fact of the group going to a treif restaurant is NOT a value that CHAT teaches!

realeez

Wed, Feb 25 2009, 9:28 am

Marion wrote:

realeez wrote:

JRKmommy wrote:

I can't think of any of dh's classmates who intermarried.

Important to note: The fact of the group going to a treif restaurant is NOT a value that CHAT teaches!

I was not trying to say that.

Marion

Wed, Feb 25 2009, 9:39 am

realeez wrote:

Marion wrote:

realeez wrote:

JRKmommy wrote:

I can't think of any of dh's classmates who intermarried.

Important to note: The fact of the group going to a treif restaurant is NOT a value that CHAT teaches!

I was not trying to say that.

I know YOU weren't trying to say that...I just didn't want anyone to jump at the statement with a "see?????" response.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2009, 2:00 pm

I have worked in a few of the modern orthodox schools. As for CHAT/CHAR just be aware that most of the kids there are not shomer shabbos or kosher. I think the boys don't even have to wear kippos so it depends on where you're holding. My neighbours kids go there and they have become less and less observant as a result. Or Chaim is a real Mizrachi school, good academics but again some of the kids are very modern and some are very frum so you have the whole spectrum. Netivot is the main feeder school here and again, you have people who are quite frum, cover hair, shiurim, etc. and some that I don't know if they are shomer shabbos really. Most are shomer shabbos in both these schools. Eitz Chaim is more mainstream and the boys there go on to Ner Yisroel, Darchei and some to Or Chaim. The percentage changes depending on the class and the school's reputation that year- some years Or Chaim has lots of Eitz Chaim boys, others maybe one or two. Check out your sons' classes. Welcome to Toronto.