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Why do we go to kevarim?



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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 18 2006, 3:13 pm
I got myself thinking as usual Rolling Eyes and I was wondering why in the world do we go to a kever of a desceased person? There is nothing but one small bone left in the grave, the neshama is not there, and there is not body to actually connect to just a stone. I could understand why we go to tzaddikims graves because the body never goes back to dust.

But that brings me down to another question if the body never goes back to dust then what happened to the saying we come from dust and go back to dust. Isn't that is why a person when they sit shiva they sit on the floor to symbolize that the body is going back to its origional state? And if that is so that a tzaddiks body is still intact then why do they sit shiva on the floor? There must not be a need for it.

Something to think about
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chen




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 18 2006, 8:11 pm
Forgive me, but we sit on the floor during shiva b/c sitting on a chair is a kind of physical pleasure that is inappropriate for a time of acute grief. same reason we don't bathe, use makeup and all the other inuyyim of shiva.

The philosophy and symbolism is very nice when you're giving a dvar torah at the shabbos tish, but as my chumash teachers always used to say whenever someone got a little too carried away with hifalutin' interpretations: Don't forget the pshat!

(Flame away, you fiery-eyed mystics; I'm wearing my flameproof apron and asbestos gloves.)
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stem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 18 2006, 8:52 pm
chen, you're right.

The only thing I want to add in response to the original question: we don't go to graves to daven TO the person buried there, as we only daven to one - Hashem. We should always be careful not to ask the buried person to do something for us, etc, as this borders with avoda zara. Sometimes Hashem will answer our prayers in the Zchus (merit) of the deceased, and that is what we should be thinking about when we daven at a kever.
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 19 2006, 3:35 am
funny cause when I was sitting shiva they told me since I was pregnant nine and half months that sitting a low enough chair was not needed for me but I was allowed to sit on my couch which trust me was low enough!! And they also told me the reason for sitting on a low chair and that is the reason they gave me we come from the dust and we go back to dust it. it is our way of connecting to the dead.


Another thing is I am not saying that we daven to them but of course to Hashem but my question is why do we go to graves if the person is not there?!?!? That is what I am wondering. Look we do feel close to the grave cause our loved one was buried there. but if they are not there anymore why do we go back to that same point over and over again?
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merpk




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 20 2006, 12:31 am
Don't know. Can't answer to the other parts. Can only say that the single most intense experience of my life was the first year we were married, we went to Tzfat, and we hadn't been pregnant at all over all those months (which I wasn't expecting ... had thought it was just one of those things, boom, getmarriedgetpregnant) ... anyway, I crawled into a cave that is traditionally the kever of Chana and her seven sons (from the Khanuka story).

Wow.

Can only say the davening I had there ... can't even say it.




And then back in the States a short time later went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe's ohel for the first time and also had an intense experience. And conceived for the first time that month. Okay, so that pregnancy didn't work out, but still, we finally conceived ...

Oh, and relevant to add that no, I'm not Chabad.





Still no clue why we go to k'varim. But glad I went.
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 20 2006, 9:54 am
I'm not much into kvarim, but it must be a "thing" b/c so many are.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 20 2006, 10:07 am
Both living and dead people can ask Hashem to help someone. When we go to the kever of a loved one or a tzaddik and ask for their help, it is because death does not sever that connection that we have. After death, a soul keeps a connection to the place where he is buried. When we summon him (or her) from "down here", the soul is summoned from above. I always feel that my mother, (may she rest in peace) receives nachas when I recite Yizkor, and even bigger nachas when I visit her kever.
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ChavieK




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 20 2006, 11:34 am
My ds had many questions about this. He asked his Rebbeim. The first place we see it is when Kalev went to Maaras Ha'machpela. It's no that he doesn't go just has questions. He told me the best answer he has gotten so far is from my friend who said it just makes her feel better to daven next to her parents.She never questioned why.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 20 2006, 12:34 pm
Quote:
We should always be careful not to ask the buried person to do something for us, etc, as this borders with avoda zara.

1) we may ask the deceased person to daven for us to Hashem for the things we need.
2) we may ask at a kever of a tzaddik to receive a bracha we need from the tzaddik himself.

Quote:
I could understand why we go to tzaddikims graves because the body never goes back to dust.

true, supermom. we know a tzaddiks body remains intact forever until Techiyas Hameisim iy"h soon.

Quote:
There must not be a need for it.

Halacha is halacha, either way.
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