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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

Is yeast chametz

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hila

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 7:50 am

we do not usually keep chametz gamur over pesach.
But I have an unopened Bruggers yeast left.
I know yeast makes Chametz, but is it chamets of itself ?

(yes I know ask my LOR)

shalhevet

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:09 am

I think it said in the Eida guide last year that it's safek, so I threw mine away.

Seraph

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:14 am

See, I never understood about the concept of yeast and chometz.
chometz is one of the five mezonos grains- barley rye oat wheat spelt- mixed with water, that sat for more than 18 minutes.
Yeast isnt even in the picture. Why? Because yeast is a fungus (as in mushrooms) naturally found in everything. Thats why chometz is mezonos grains that sat with water- because naturally there is yeast on these grains, and if u let it sit for more than 18 minutes, the "sour-dough" process starts- sourdough being naturally found yeast.

If you have wine on pesach, then you've had something with yeast that is kosher lepesach- because the way wine ferments is via the yeast found on the grapes.
I dont understand why yeast isnt kosher lepesach, why you can't make pesach bread with matza cake meal and yeast and water....
Its the same yeast that is on grapes for wine that IS kosher lepesach. I don't get it.

mummy-bh

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:16 am

Don't throw it away!!! Give it to MEEEEEE!!!!

We sell everything. I even buy flour the week before Pesach to make sure I have what to make challas with for the shlissel challa

I have a neighbour who gives me all her chometz on the day before erev Y"T . very happy to receive it!!

hila

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:18 am

Come get it mummy-bh and while you are at it please bring me some nice english klp ground almonds !

or send me a ticket to England to send it to you Wink

Or I could mail it !

hila

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:19 am

Actually there a quite few tsedaka organisations who take closed chjamets before pesach. I would not throw it out

ss321

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 8:41 am

Seraph wrote:

I wonder the same thing. Is the safek because they are scared the bag of yeast is contaminated with a grain of flour? because if so ITA. But yeast itself is a fungus....right...I never understood why it would be chometzdik and why we cant use it to try to make things rise (like use it with potato starch in a cake or something, IDK!)

shalhevet

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 9:20 am

I have a feeling it's something to do with the manufacturing process, because why would they say it's safek. I am going to ask my dh about this one - I think it's a fascinating question. Maybe it just doesn't work with mm or something so they don't make KLP.

hila

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 10:02 am

I emailed our Rav and got this as the answer...

I believe 'Seor' is the ultimate chometz. The Pasuk specifically tells us not to have Seor in our possession.

louche

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 12:10 pm

Yeast is not seor. seor is not stam anything that can make dough rise but specifically dough that has risen through fermentation and can make other dough rise. It is not the bubble-producing action alone that makes it forbidden. Proof of this is the fact that sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is permitted on Pesach and is included in Pesachdik baking powders for the express purpose of producing gas and making baked goods light and airy.

You do not have to get rid of your yeast, but prudent practice dictates that you would put it away for Pesach.

entropy

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 12:14 pm

but is the yeast you buy pure yeast? I think there could be grain holding it together, no?

chavamom

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 12:25 pm

hila wrote:

we do not usually keep chametz gamur over pesach.
But I have an unopened Bruggers yeast left.
I know yeast makes Chametz, but is it chamets of itself ?

(yes I know ask my LOR)

No, it's "seor" (that which causes things to become chometz) which is also forbidden, at least according to Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz!

chavamom

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 12:29 pm

OK, here is the OU's psak:

Quote:

Yeast

The Torah says that one may not own se’or on Pesach. Are se’or and yeast the same thing? A quick lesson in bread baking will surprisingly show that se’or is yeast but yeast isn’t necessarily se’or!

Although a grain which soaks in water for 18 minutes is chametz, in order to make good bread one needs yeast. Yeast is the living microorganism which converts some of the flour into the carbon dioxide which fluffs-up the batter and causes it to “rise”. The air we breathe contains yeast, and therefore if one makes a batter of flour and water it’ll eventually rise even if no yeast is added, because yeast from the atmosphere will find their way into the batter. But most bakers don’t have the patience to wait all day for their bread to rise, so they add their own yeast into the batter to speed things up a bit.

The traditional method of collecting/creating yeast is as follows. Every day the baker would take one handful of dough out of the batter and not bake it. As the day went on, the yeast in that dough would multiply (and be joined by other yeast found in the air) to such an extent that that the batter would turn sour and inedible. This ball of concentrated yeast would be thrown into the next day’s batter to help that batter rise (and a handful of that batter would be taken out to be saved for the next day… ) . In English this concentrated yeast-ball is called “sourdough” due to its awfully-sour taste, and this is what the Torah calls se’or and forbids one from owning on Pesach.

However, one can also collect yeast from plant sources and produce it via fermentation. If yeast doesn’t contain any ingredients from the 5 grains (as it often doesn’t) it isn’t chametz even though it has the same characteristics as se’or (see Mechiltah 9:19 on Sh’mos 12:19) and one may own it on Pesach. [The process of “fermentation” and the possible chametz concerns it raises will be discussed below]. Thus, se’or is concentrated yeast but the yeast which is commonly sold in stores is not se’or.

Brewer’s yeast is yeast recovered from beer production (discussed below). It is similar to se’or and one may not own it (derive benefit from it or eat it) on Pesach.

louche

Fri, Mar 20 2009, 2:22 pm

entropy wrote:

but is the yeast you buy pure yeast? I think there could be grain holding it together, no?

Not if you mean active dry yeast sold for baking. Brewer's yeast is something different, used not for baking but for the vitamins in it--and it's sold in pills.

Seraph

Sat, Mar 21 2009, 2:50 pm

So I looked up yeast in rabbi blumenkrantz's pesach book and it left me even more confused than I was beforehand.
He pretty much said there are a few kinds of yeast-
one yeast is grown on molasses or other non chometz matter.
and the other one is grown on malt (pure chometz), and multiplies thanks to the malt, and then once it grows, is transferred to grow on molasses and multiplies to such an extent that even if the original yeast grown on the malt is chometz (which is a safek, because the chometz changed form- to the fungus, yeast), it is then multiplied so much on the molasses that any chometz that possibly could have been in it was batel, and hence u can buy any yeast after pesach, because its not considered chometz she'avar alav hapesach even if it was not sold.
He said "We must remember that our question is not whether we should use yeast on pesach, but whether it falls in teh category of chometz she'ovar alav hapesach."

Uhm, to the bold- why not? I am more confused. From all I read, its not chometz, so what in fact is the problem with using it on pesach???

shalhevet

Sat, Mar 21 2009, 2:57 pm

I asked dh about this. He says yeast just doesn't work with matza meal/ potato flour etc because it's a chemical reaction with the flour. He said if it worked you can be sure it would have been marketed by now.

If I had time I'd try this out before Pesach, but I guess the experimenting will have to wait till Iyyar.

Tamiri

Sat, Mar 21 2009, 3:05 pm

I made my own se'or (sourdough starter) and that is real chametz because it's machmitz. You can taste it. It's nothing like commercial dry yeast.

Seraph

Sat, Mar 21 2009, 4:06 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I dont know. Knowing science, I really think I'd disagree with your husband. Yeast eats carbohydrates. Yeast would still eat cooked carbohydrates that are in matza meal.

chavamom

Sun, Mar 22 2009, 12:19 am

Seraph wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I dont know. Knowing science, I really think I'd disagree with your husband. Yeast eats carbohydrates. Yeast would still eat cooked carbohydrates that are in matza meal.

You are right but only have part of the picture. It eats carbs and produces gas bubbles. BUT the bubbles have to be trapped by strands of gluten (which is why you have to knead bread to make long strands of gluten) to make things rise. Once it is baked, you see those trapped bubbles as the air pockets in the dough. Matzah meal isn't going to break down and form strands of gluten to trap the bubbles. Make sense?

louche

Sun, Mar 22 2009, 1:10 am

But I'll bet you could make something like beer out of matzah meal. You can make an alcoholic beverage out of any carbohydrate if you let it ferment. Rum from molasses, vodka from potatoes, beer from barley, sake from rice...

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