Juicy parts of the megillah...!

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

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goldrose

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 10:15 am

Yesterday, we bought the Toravision purim tape set...and so dh and I got to talking...

Haigai "sris" hamelech - what is "sris"? I always thought - as I was taught in megilla class at school - that it was merely "another type of servant"....but no, it is a eunuch - a castrated man. Shashgaz was also "sris" hamelech.

Haigai was in charge of one of the "beis Hanoshim" - harem (a secluded house allotted to the wives, concubines, female relatives..) where the contestants stayed before they were seen by Achashverosh.

Shashgaz was in charge of the "beis hanoshim sheini" the second harem - where the contestants lived after they tried out for queen.

These guys could be trusted with the women because they had no part....

This activity - of trying out queens - was almost like a sport to king achashverosh - as it says, "b'erev hee ba'ah, ubaboker hee shava" - the contestants came at night, he "tried them out" and they left in the morning - to the second harem - after which they were not allowed to have relations with any other man ever. They'd live there, and occasionally the kind would think about one of them and ask for her again (for relations).

Even after king achashverosh found his queen (esther), he still continued his sport - "uv'hikovetz besulos sheinis" - they rounded up girls again so the king could have some fun...

supermom

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 10:39 am

what about esther?

Mama Bear

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 10:52 am

There was a whole book about this, which I read and it wasn't very clean so I stopped in the middle. It was crazy what life he led. The women spent months being bathed and perfumed and softend up and then he'd use them ONCE and if they had babies they were kept in a nursery and the mother never saw them, and achashverosh had no shaychus with his many kids... I dont know how much of this book is fact and how much is fiction, but it's definitely true that he was a total pr*stitute and he 'used' Queen Esther - look how she hadnt' been by him for 30 days and was afraid to go to him!

goldrose

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 10:53 am

well part of it is that I just discovered the real meaning behind some parts of the megillah, and am intrigued and felt like sharing. I thought I'd learned the megilla THOUROUGHLY - but aparently Mrs. Gansburg knew which parts to leave out!

gryp

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 10:54 am

I think this type of thread belongs in the closed forums.

goldrose

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 11:12 am

THIS IS TORAH. This is NOT stam jabber - It IS interesting, but it's TORAH.

hardwrknmom

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 11:37 am

This is the megillah after all.

Although I have learned what Goldrose posted, its so interesting!!

The torah talks about "juicy parts" too , medrashim, meforshim.. what you going to close the book cause it's too "juicy"

shock

Rivka

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 11:45 am

Goldrose I learned the same thing.
I have not heard about the nursery part and the women not seeing their own kids.
Anyone who learns Megillah properly will have this info

Crayon210

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 12:20 pm

I've been studying the Megila lately in preparation for Purim with the commentary of the Alshich.

He points out some things that are really really interesting.

One major point that he brings out is that Achashveirosh was very very wealthy, to the point that he didn't even care for gold.

When the megila describes (first perek) about the decorations at the party, he notes that it describes the scene from the top down--the covers to the garden area are made of cotton/linen, followed by gold and silver couches (he says silver couches with gold legs), followed by jewel-encrusted walking areas.

This is obviously backward--one usually decorates the walls and ceilings beautifully, not the ground, yet Achashveirosh saved the jewels for the ground and the cotton for the ceiling...and the couches were silver and the LEGS were gold!

This further points out his apathy toward riches, as well as the fact that his main focus during the whole festival was to make the Jews sin--he made drinking the major focus of the party, to the extent that no one even had to get up to admire the walls/ceilings, they could just look below their feet and be awed by Achashveirosh's wealth and power.

Another interesting part of the decorations was that the ceiling hangings were white, blue, green, and purple. This was to symbolize subtly to the Jews that they shouldn't worry about sinning because Hashem promised through the rainbow to Noach that he'd never destroy the world again. All the colors of the rainbow are related to those four colors. He davka chose purple instead of red itself because he knew that red signifies sin, and he didn't want the Jews to remember the concept too well and maybe regret what they were doing...

willow

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 12:24 pm

keep it coming ladies, this is all so interesting

Mama Bear

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 12:24 pm

Rivka wrote:

Goldrose I learned the same thing.
I have not heard about the nursery part and the women not seeing their own kids.
Anyone who learns Megillah properly will have this info GR and Crayon. So really nothing to lock up about.

Well I dont know if the nursery part is true, I think it was an embellished novel, I think it was called "and esther was his queen" or something. Dont take it as fact.

carrot

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 1:00 pm

I am also very fascinated by the story of Esther. I once heard that the reason that she was "allowed" to do what she did - Achashverosh was not Jewish after all - was because she blocked herself off and did not feel anything. It was as if she was not there.

I wonder how this is different than what a woman might naturally do when being raped ch'v?

goldrose

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 1:21 pm

do you think esther was kind of like raped? I mean, she DIDNT want to be married to him, and she was SCARED of him!

mompete

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 1:37 pm

Quote:

Even after king achashverosh found his queen (esther), he still continued his sport - "uv'hikovetz besulos sheinis" - they rounded up girls again so the king could have some fun...

The reason Achashverosh rounded up the girls again was on the advice of Mordechai. Achashverosh complained to Mordechai that Esther would not give him any info about her background and he was upset. Mordechai advised that the king make another beauty contest so that Esther would be afraid and think she was being replaced thereby telling the king what he wanted to know. It didnt' work Wink

. As for her going to the king, there is a meforash somewhere (I'm bad on sources) that say that when the king wanted her, a malach was sent instead but then there's that whole question of Daruvesh so I have no answer there.
The megillah story has always fascinated me.
Do you know that the reason Esther needed 7 maids so she'd know what day shabbos was was because the persians didn't keep a seven day week? (bit of trivia!)

Crayon210

Tue, Feb 28 2006, 1:44 pm

carrot wrote:

Yes, since Esther was raped each time, it was okay al pi halacha.

Later in the megillah, when she and Mordechai are debating if she should go to Achashveirosh willingly, she agrees finally, saying that if she is lost, so be it. This refers to the idea that she will never be allowed to return to her husband (Mordechai, according to many), since she will have gone willingly to be with another man. That's real mesirus nefesh!

Especially since after the whole story is over and everyone is happy...she's still stuck being married to a [gentile].

carrot

Wed, Mar 01 2006, 12:37 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

carrot wrote:

Which do you think is the more difficult mesiras nefesh: not being able to go back to mordechai, or the act itself having to offer herself to be "willingly raped"?

Also would this be an Aveira "L'shma"?

Mommy912

Wed, Mar 01 2006, 12:43 pm

Isn't Gilui Arayos one of the "Big Three" yaharog ve'al ya'avor? How was she able to do this?

Crayon210

Wed, Mar 01 2006, 1:21 pm

I think not going back to Mordechai was a HUGE mesirus nefesh.

What do you mean by aveira l'shma?

It is one of the big three; maybe another aspect of her mesirus nefesh was her willingness to do something wrong (and suffer the consequences) to save the Jews?

carrot

Wed, Mar 01 2006, 1:51 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

That is what I mean by aveira l'shma. Doing an aveira for a holy purpose.

But anyway since when is marrying a [gentile] gilui arayos?

Crayon210

Wed, Mar 01 2006, 1:56 pm

Not marrying a [gentile], but being with someone out of wedlock...

Or is that okay because he was a [gentile]? Yeah, I think so. Am I right?

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