Juicy parts of the megillah...!

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

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Motek

Sun, Mar 12 2006, 4:08 pm

now why on earth is that anonymous? Confused

carrot

Mon, Mar 13 2006, 1:22 pm

Motek wrote:

Quote:

I have no research paper, no Bible study class, just a habit of taking ideas seriously and trying to find the truth of things.

oh, I'm all for taking ideas seriously and trying to find the truth about things, I just don't see why you need to bother finding out which feminist ideas are actually Torah ideas, stam azoi

Quote:

Maybe ideally we could get all our ideas from Torah but it is really not possible practically speaking.

my comment was a continuation of the one preceding it - if you don't have a specific need to study feminism as it relates or doesn't relate to Torah, why deal with it?

I have a need - I think about things and so I wonder.

Quote:

my, how philosophical! and not a word about the megilla!

Back to the topic, (sort of) how about this:

Somebody very authoritative, I forget who, says it is an admirable thing that Achashverosh waited for years to marry until he found the perfect wife.

OK not juicy but interesting, I think. I mean, in terms of his method of dating, his qualifications for a "good wife", and the implications for a single woman who is interested in getting married?

Quote:

now why on earth is that anonymous? Confused

Maybe she's a Tanya teacher and doesn't want us to know?

In any case Amother, thanks for the info.

shanie5

Sat, Mar 18 2006, 9:05 pm

Quote:

about the issue of having a not so happy ending for esther and mordechai, if they didn't do what they did, they would have been dead so it was happy although bittersweet.

no they would not have been dead. as mordechai says to esther in perek 4, if you dont step forward now, the deliverance will come from elsewhere.

shanie5

Sat, Mar 18 2006, 9:08 pm

my non-jewish/theology proffesor friend was telling me how she teaches 'the book of esther' to her college students. she asks why of all women, achashveirosh chose esther? well, considering how he got to 'know' the women it's obvious-she was good in bed!!! shock

(amazing how others who dont know can corrupt the torah!)

Motek

Sun, Mar 19 2006, 4:38 pm

another point - Achasheirosh did not only pick from a selection of single women, married women were taken too!

and carrot - I asked and Agadta from the Gemara is equivalent to Medrash in that both are the non-legal parts of the Oral Torah

carrot

Sun, Mar 19 2006, 6:50 pm

Motek wrote:

and carrot - I asked and Agadta from the Gemara is equivalent to Medrash in that both are the non-legal parts of the Oral Torah

Motek

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 10:33 am

When Esther called for a fast and the Jews fasted for 3 days, that was on Pesach! Can you believe it - no seder, no matza, fasting on yomtov - on Pesach!?

Motek

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 8:10 pm

got anything to add? it's an interesting thread!

Crayon210

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 9:21 pm

Thank you for reviving-it was an interesting read.

Thanks also for reminding me to start learning Esther again!

Toot

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 9:56 pm

Yea definitely thanks for the reminder! Hopefully I'll have something to add soon.

GetReal

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 10:05 pm

For those who asked what happened to Esther after the nes - Achashveirosh died about a year later. I'm still looking for a source that says if Esther was allowed to leave the palace then or not.

And according to those who say that Esther send a demon to be with Achashveirosh, I'm also curious to know where Daryaveish came from. Anyone have a source?

Beauty and the Beast

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 10:24 pm

wow, wow, wow!!
just finished reading this whole thread! It is just fascinating!!
Am I the only one who did NOT know that esther had a child with achashveirosh??

Ruchel

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 5:40 am

maybe the demon/golem (depending on the sources) stayed around and pretended to be pregnant before pretending to give birth to a baby that was raised by Esther?

I've just asked my dh: he says there are sources also saying the conception was without relations/miraculous, or that the father of Darius was actually Mordechai (allowed as the golem had relations with the king, not her).

Interesting topic!!

HindaRochel

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 7:18 am

amother wrote:

I've always wondered about this but too embarrassed to ask DH. Since we were engaged and I found out he's a kohen, I've had this crazy fear of getting ch"v raped. Is the halacha across the board, no matter what, if the wife of a kohen gets raped then they can no longer be married to each other? It's so scary!

If a Halachic rape takes place then yes. But it has to be rape Halachically, at least penetration, there may be more details, and your husband would have to believe that it actually took place.

There would be no need to go into graphic details.

If he thought that you were raped, but not halachaically raped, you wouldn't be forbidden to him.

Crayon210

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 12:50 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I've just asked my dh: he says there are sources also saying the conception was without relations/miraculous

Can you ask him for the sources?

amother

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 1:13 pm

The most interesting part of the megilla to me is right at the end. It says, "v'ratzue l'rov achav," That Mordechai was accepted and loved by MOST of his brothers. Even at a time such as right after Purim occured, the Jewish people were divided, and did not all accept Mordechai. While most recognized him as the true leader who did and knew the will of Hashem, not everyone agreed and he had his crictics who thought he should not have so much ties to the government. Sound familiar? As the French say, The more things change the more things stay the same. I'm not Ruchel, so I can't say it in French, though.

GetReal

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 1:19 pm

Good point. There were also Jews who didn't like Moshe. What does that say about us?

grin

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 1:33 pm

Tefila wrote:

it says she actually married Mordechai before she entered the Kings Palace. ANd as far as I know did not recieve a get

I actually read in a midrash that they stayed married to the point that she went secretly at night to the mikva in order to be with Mordechai, and sent messengers to show him bedika-sheilas.

Tefila wrote:

Better they should learn the way it was then go to other sites

I was told that someone asked the Lubav. Rebbe how we can teach all those explicit Rashi's to children (as the Rebbe maintains that Rashi wrote his perush to be appropriate for "ben 5 lemikra") and the answer was that no harm will come from learning something bek'dusha.
(Hey, I learned about relations first from peeking in the back pages of the Kitzur!)

BTW - this is a great thread! Much more upper -level than most!

Ruchel

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 2:00 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

I've just asked my dh: he says there are sources also saying the conception was without relations/miraculous

Can you ask him for the sources?

he doesn't know, he just remembers from what he learned
sorry

Ruchel

Wed, Feb 27 2008, 2:03 pm

oh another version he remembered: Esther divorced from Mordechai before going to the palace, and the king actually converted after the Purim events, and only then was the marriage consummated. Sorry no remembering of the source again...

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