What do you think about this story???

amother

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:27 am

So my father was visiting us from OOT and decided to help out and go to the local supermarket to get me a certain cut a meat for one of my recipes. This local supermarket has a very large kosher meat section as well as a traif section in a totally different part of the store.

My father, who actually happens to be an Orthodox rabbi, was wearing a baseball hat that day becuase he just likes baseball hats! He still has the beard and all that.

When he when to get the meat he was lucky to pick up the only package of that kind of cut that was left. As soon as he picked it up, a yeshiva bouchur, who apparently was shopping for the same kind of meat told him the package out of my father's hands and said "I think you are in the wrong department, the regular meat is on the other side."

To which my father grabbed back the meat, said "Sorry, I am buying this for shobbos," and walked away. He said the bochur looked surprised.

Why would a frum Jew try to convince another Jew to eat traif meat????? This store is in a very yeshivish area but even still plenty of people come from all over for their large selection.

amother

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:36 am

Maybe because your father was wearing the baseball cap the bochur might not have realized that he's a yid. I've seen non jews with long beards and it's taken me a few seconds to chap that it's not a yid. Either way it still wasnt nice of him to grab it out of his hands.

amother

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:40 am

OP here, the only thing I can think of his is that this guy's wife would be really mad at him if he didnt come home with the meat!

But still even if someone looks 100% goyshe, why would you stop them from buying the kosher meat? There are plenty of 100% halachic Jews out there who don't look Jewish per se!

Barbara

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

That's my take. The bochur wanted the last piece of meat, so he figured he could take it (quite literally in this case) from the older fellow, and that the older fellow would be too intimidated by his chutzpah and his *bochur-ness* to challenge him.

Frankly, I'd love to run into your father with an Orthodox-rabbi-style beard (I assume that you mean a longer beard, rather than a closely cropped one) and baseball cap. defying all stereotypes and marching to his own sartorial drummer while still meeting all halachic requirements. Go OP's dad!

amother

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:47 am

OP here-
I just thought we are always supposed to encourage those arent as halachically observant to become more observant....so EVEN if the person buying the meat looked like a biker with cross tatoos, we should never tell them to buy traif!!!

amother

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:49 am

OP again- Thanks Barbara, I will tell my Dad. He was VERY disturbed by the incident. This is a man that was born and raised in Brooklyn, so its not like he wasnt used to religious communities!

By the way, my Dad also wears Navy blue, grey, and sometimes brown hats to shul just because he likes them! Very Happy

louche

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:55 am

Where was this bochur coming from? all I can think is that he wanted that package and didn't care what he had to do to get it. (I call this "Filene's Basement Syndrome." Slash, burn, and trample but GET THAT SALE ITEM before anyone else. )

If your OP's father had been a [gentile], this would have been a busha vecherpah lifnei hagoyyim. To be so rude? and what's it this bochur's business if a nonjew wants to eat kosher meat? (I cannot believe that he thought OP's father was just a secular Jew. It would be a sin to direct a jew to eat tref, even knowing that the Jew does eat tref.) it's not meat from a korban and it's not forbidden to a [gentile]. In fact, a growing number of nonjews chooses to eat kosher meat--gleefully encouraged by the kosher food industry--from a perception that it's cleaner, healthier, hormone-free, or just tastes better (thanks to the salt of kashering).

I think this yungerman was not thinking straight. Can there be any other logical explanation? He couldn't really have been so crass as to think it's ok to be rude to a [gentile] just because he (the bochur) wanted something special for shabbos?

louche

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:56 am

amother wrote:

Quite so.

NotInNJMommy

Fri, May 22 2009, 11:57 am

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

That's also my impression. I can't imagine someone not recognizing a man in a beard with a baseball cap, looking at kosher meat as probably being JEwish and I also can't imagine a normal person with normal middos (we're not talking tzaddikim here) just taking something out of someone else's hands like that. That's just so rude and strange.

louche

Fri, May 22 2009, 12:00 pm

I got it, I got it! The bochur is in an abusive relationship (wife, parents or roommmate) and if he didn't come home with THAT exact cut of meat, he'd be beaten, stripped and locked in a closet for three days. Desperation makes animals of us all.

Still doesn't explain the snarky comment about being in the wrong section. If the above were true, I'd grab the package and tell the man "don't buy that, it's spoiled" or "don't buy that, I saw some loony inject blood into it."

Raisin

Fri, May 22 2009, 1:03 pm

no need to grab. even if he did think this was a non jew, he could have kindly pointed out this is the kosher meat section, is that what he is looking for.

I sometimes see non Jews in the kosher section of my supermarket (where I live non jews haven't even heard of kosher) but I don't say anything. they could be Jewish, just not looking Jewish, or perhaps a carer for an elderly Jewish person doing their shopping. presumably the price of kosher meat would discourage them from buying it accidentally.

greenfire

Fri, May 22 2009, 1:35 pm

the problem I have is the downright chutzpa of the bochur to grab the meat out of another person's hand - regardless of the situation ... I wouldn't let him get off that easy ...

sneakermom

Sun, May 24 2009, 8:50 pm

I think there is a strong possibility that this particular bochur is 'off' in some way. Perhaps he is a kind of guy that doesn't read social cues well and when he saw the baseball cap he just didn't realize that hey....this guy is a normal religious guy. So being that he is a bit off, he impulsively grabbed the meat and redirected your father to the treif counter.

My other option is that he is a real narcissist and thinks the world revolves around him...and that he is above all rules.

Either way....very off. Not your typical guy for sure. But also something a bit more psyche than just being rude.

That's my two sense.

octopus

Mon, May 25 2009, 8:49 pm

sneakermom wrote:

hmmmm...I agree. something definitely off about this person. And this store sounds like shoprite. And there are always plenty of non-Jews and non-religious Jews that shop in the kosher section. Many non-Jews believe that kosher meats are prepared healthier and are better to eat (and they are).

rowo

Tue, May 26 2009, 2:01 am

very strange story
I often see people in the butcher who I wouldn't think were jewish if I saw them elsewhere. u never know, I've heard of ppl who barely keep anything, but they buy kosher meat...