Seminary/Yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael (merged)

mumof1

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 9:49 am

I always have yeshiva boys over, and yes it is true many of them do watch movies in their dira cuz someone has a laptop. and many times I have been in a resturaunt where I would see yeshiva guys flirting with the waitress etc. this is not a general statement on all yeshiva boys with the boys I know, the parents that hold tight when the boys leave the parents house they run wild.
when the parents give the kids freedom at home they dont run so wild when they are away cuz its not a taste they have not had before.
just a thought.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 10:24 am

mumof1 wrote:

a thought on this topic. if it was not so assur for the guys to go see a movie every once in a while, then maybe it would not be such an issue for them to have a laptop in their room.....
and if it is rageel for them to talk to girls, then it would not be such a big thing for them to start flirting with a female.....................

those are my thoughts and I am sure that I will get bashed for them, but those are my opinions.

amother

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 6:16 pm

Excellent article...and really very true. I certainly think that the girl's schools have much better supervision than the boys ones do, and as a result, while these problesm certinaly exist, they are to less of a degree than in the boy's schools. Curfews, less nights out, and mandatory attendence for am shiur/classes would all help the situation.

Stimulating extra-curricular activites when not learning would also help the kids from getting into trouble when they d on't want to learn anymore!

Imaonwheels

Wed, Feb 07 2007, 12:54 am

We are a regular guest house for American yeshiva guys. We get from Mir, Ponevitch, Brisk and smaller yeshivos as well.

I find it interesting to see that one month there are complaints about how super frumed the kids come back and the next month is an article on how much shtuyot they are getting into.

It depends on the age and if the kid is used to independence before they come. My experience is that kids who dormed in HS are in better shape. Where you go has a lot to do with it. If you go to a yeshiva where a shirt with aidel stripes is considered too modern then the rebellion will be colored shirts. If you go to a place where they have to state outright no girls, movies, etc that is the rebellion you will get.

I suggest parents who are worried make sure their child is in dorm and not in a dira. Cells and computers are limited in the dorms. Also, try to find a place that is not all chutzniks or has only a smaller group. That way there will be Israeli (usually stricter) standards and the main influences will be boys whose parents are nearby. Off Shabbosim can then be visiting the homes of friends as opposed to whatever and wherever I feel like.

Most Israeli yeshivas have a sem that is known to be the shidduch base for this yeshiva. This will be in their minds as that is the age they are. A small detour is normal for kids on their own for the first time. It is better to find out about the places from parents than rabbonim as they will not be (looking for a delicate way to say) hashkafically narrow(?). They also think about the good of their child first. If you know Israeli parents that is even better.

Our last guests were from a small yeshiva which was started by a known American rav dh had a connection with years ago. How disappointed we were to find that all of the boys who came to us from there were rude (even to us who were hosting them), narrow minded and full of hatred for groups not their own. The big name at top is not the deciding factor.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Feb 08 2007, 9:44 am

Wow, buy the man a beer. I finally agree w/Jonatham Rosenblum on something. Most times I think Shmuly doesn't get it.

But what rebuttal, were we talking about the substance abusers? I agree w/what he said. I also read SB's original artical sometime back and found it arrogant.

What about the good kids that come here because they want to grow in Torah. The boys we get are like that for the most part.

Yes, I think some parents can;t deal w/their kids' probs so they let someone else do it. Sort of like counting on the maon to toilet train, only there the parents admit that something is smelly and annoying. Israel is not a cure all but getting to the right yeshiva or sem is better than staying w/parents who are emasculated and in denial.

Motek

Sun, Feb 11 2007, 6:29 pm

another article by rosenblum:

http://www.cross-currents.com/.....oise/

His opening paragraph:

Quote:

One of the most important revolutions in the American Torah world over the past three decades has been the explosion of post-high school learning programs in Israel. Thirty years ago there were two or three post-high school seminaries for girls and a handful of yeshivos, other than Mir, Ponevezh, and Brisk for American bochurim. Today there are dozens of each.

Not convinced it's an important revolution. Parents of girls pay something like $20,000 for a year in Israel. I find that obscene.

catonmylap

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 4:06 am

What do you think of this thread from yeshiva world news?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com.....srael

I am more than a decade after seminary and I can say that it really impacted my life. It really turned me on to learning at a higher level than high school. I feel like it gave me more strength to get degrees at a secular universities.

And it introduced me to E"Y. I don't know if I would be living here today if it were not for seminary. It was during seminary that living in E"Y became a priority in my life.

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 4:27 am

Quote:

I don't really know much about if this describes all or some of the BY or more modern sems here and the American girl's stay there. But if it is true, maybe the answer is to open sems with the emphasis on having a real Israeli experience without all the luxuries. It sounds like those double or treble the cost.

Although I think adding gifts for Shabbos in his list of unnecessary extras is pretty disgusting. He is paying for a trip to Europe and restaurants for his daughter, but the families in EY who are kind enough to host his daughter for Shabbos shouldn't even get a gift Exploding anger

Raisin

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 4:55 am

shalhevet wrote:

Quote:

I think his issue is more that the seminaries don't provide shabbos meals.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 5:00 am

Is the price of Seminary in Israel worth it? The costs of Seminary are out of control!
A phone (of course in the Seminary's plan), a trip to Europe, dinner out every night because Seminaries refuse to supply food to our daughters (despite being charged astronomical tuition), gifts for Shabbos, Taxis,the "absolute must have charges" never seem to end.

Maybe its time we start investing in cost efficient Seminaries here in the States where you don't feel the seminary is out to make a dollar off of you every which way they can. I think that girls that find these things important while in israel could just as easily have gotten the same experience by going to uni away from home.

myself, I know that my sem year, ten years ago this summer, was very influential in my life. it made me want to make aliyah to israel.
I also know that I was in a sem that was not anywhere near yerushaliyim and so, my friends and I did things that were so far removed from going outto eat every night. we sat on the grass on the campus where we stay and talked and got to know eachother or we would walk around the yishuv where the sem was or go to the nearest town (petach tikvah) for a pizza, so it was very different.

I think that it is a specific type of girl who do those things and find them important.

catonmylap

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 5:19 am

I hardly ever went out to eat in seminary. I kept myself to a strict budget. I needed to provide for my own breakfasts and dinners. I bought food and I prepared it myself--that is what my friends did as well. I had the impression in seminary that the "good girls" didn't go out to Ben Yehuda. I always took buses, hardly ever taxis. I didn't have a cellphone, but only one girl in the entire seminary did (different times). But I don't think you can complain about a cellphone for seminary these days because even in the states the daughter would probably need a cellphone.

I didn't go home for Pesach, and I didn't go on the trip to Eastern Europe---those were extras.

TAPS

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 6:00 am

Growing up here I was actually envious of my friends who came for a full year to learn and be inspired. Its very different when you grow up here. I think you appreciate E"Y much more when you don't have it all the time.
You create relationships with teachers and rebbeim that I think impact you for the rest of your life.
At 18 I was doing sherut Leumi.
And even when I went to Nishmat to learn afterwards it just wasn't the same.

So granted there are the more Jappy, materialistic schools. But there are also the wonderfully transforming schools. Seems a shame to give up on them all.

chaylizi

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 8:17 am

I wonder where his daughter(s) went to seminary? of all those things all I did was buy shabbos gifs for my hosts when we had an off shabbos. we were only really on our own for one shabbos out of every month. anyway I thought the cell phones were for safety these days? my sisters were required to have them to make sure they could always reach their girls in an emergency. that sounds like a worthy expense to me. I don't know that I will be sending my dd's to e"y for sem. the prices have gone out & kids often do things that they shouldn't because of peer pressure. as my oldest dd is 5, I think I'll wait to make that decision. things have changed so drastically since I went to seminary, I can't imagine sem then will be like em now. for better or for worse.

red sea

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 9:01 am

Its really relative when I went to sem (over a decade ago) the span of spending in my sem went from the girl who spent the least that year $1,000- to the girl who spent the most $10,000. There are basic needs but they dont cost as much as 'keeping up' with 'everyone else'. I hardly think the trip to europe & dinner at restaurants nightly are "must haves" I bet most of the sems do not encourage them either.

bubby

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 9:03 am

None of my girls went to Sem in EY...not an option, mainly because there was only 1 possibility & we didn't have the "right" connections. So 2 went to Europe & 1 stayed in the US. All had fantastic experiences, made wonderful "forever" friends, & merited beautiful Shidduchim.

Having said that, I think I would want them to be in EY if I was doing it today, despite the many horror stories I've been hearing. You have to know & be able to trust your kids & have a sound understanding of the Sem & its policies. BTW...the same applies to Yeshivas too.