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-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Purim
lucky
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 Fri, Mar 17 2006, 9:38 am
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I agree that they should drink. But not become drunk. Being freilich is just enough.
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chen
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 10:05 am
| MosheDovid'sMom wrote: | . if this guy drank he would be a much happier person.
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What a dangerous and irresponsible statement. You have absolutely no way of knowing what effect drinking would have on this man. It could make him slightly nauseous, deathly ill, gently maudlin, majorly depressed, mildly aggressive, wildly violent, put him to sleep or put him in a hospital. He could be allergic; he could be a recovering alcoholic; he could be taking medication that is incompatible with alcohol.
Furthermore, a person who knows that drinking will make him behave in a shameful, non-Torahdik way, must refrain from drinking. (Sorry, Motek, I do not have the source. It was in a treatise on laws and customs of Purim but I have no idea who wrote it.)
this from http://www.torah.org/learning/......html "If one fears that he may be harmed by excessive drinking of wine or come to levity thereby or even forget the required brachot one is required to make, drinking excessively is forbidden."
From what I have read, exactly the opposite of your statement is true. Most people who drink are unhappy. They drink to "escape" their unhappiness. Of course the escape is an illusion and their drinking, far from doing anything to solve the unhappiness, ultimately makes matters worse..
Drinking might make your husband's friend artificially cheerful for an hour or two until the chemical effects wear off. This is not the same as making him a happy person. happiness does not come from chemical substances. (see thread on "key to happiness" for ideas as to what makes a person happy.) After the fumes dissipate and the air clears, an unhappy person is still an unhappy person. (And I am not convinced that your friend is necessarily an unhappy person. A serious, sober demeanor and a happy world view are not mutually exclusive.)
for a deeper analysis and insights into of laws of drinking on purim, see http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/p.....g.htm
Last edited by chen on Fri, Mar 17 2006, 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 10:48 am
in my house we call it "tippled."
my husband drinks just enough to the point where he acts very funny, says ridiculous things, lots of joking. its harmless and fun for him, and me too.
even the rare occasion when he drinks too much and starts throwing up, its not a big deal for me. I dont clean up after him, he cleans up after himself, but always makes it to the bathroom in time so theres nothing to clean.
he's stuck with the migraines, exhaustion, vomiting, etc. not me. its his choice if he wants to bring that all on himself, I just feel bad for him.
but he knows if theres a chance I may need help with the kids later on, he wont drink to that point.
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amother
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 11:01 am
| Quote: | | guy told my husband that his wife isn't talking to him because she is angry that he was drunk on Purim |
how sad  to ignore a spouse  yhats terrible!!!!!!!!
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youngmom
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 1:01 pm
| Quote: | guy told my husband that his wife isn't talking to him because she is angry that he was drunk on Purim
how sad to ignore a spouse yhats terrible!!!!!!!! |
there might be more to this story that you don't know. how about if she asked him not to get drunk b/c it really bothers her and he went and did it anyway..... just making up a situation but trying to show that we can't judge by hearing one side of a story.
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Crayon210
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 2:53 pm
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Why would a wife have the "right" to ask her husband not to drink or get drunk--especially on Purim (unless there were extenuating circumstances, like she was sick and needed him to help her, etc.)?
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jewgal84
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Fri, Mar 17 2006, 3:35 pm
My dh doesn't feel to well after drinking much, so BH he did not drink more than 4... 
* * *
Isn't the minhag (for those who follow this in particular) to drink until you can't differentiate between Mordechai and Haman? I guess some people need to drink more than others  !
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chen
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Sat, Mar 18 2006, 11:51 pm
| jewgal84 wrote: |
Isn't the minhag (for those who follow this in particular) to drink until you can't differentiate between Mordechai and Haman? |
the exact quote is till you don't know the diff between 'orur homon' and 'boruch mordechai'. that's in reality a very subtle difference--they are very similar concepts, opposite sides of the same coin, in effect. it takes relatively litte to befuddle a person's thinking so that he cannot make fine distinctions.
dovor acher, the gematriyo of 'orur homon' and 'boruch mordechai' is the same. (do the math.) it takes very little indeed to befuddle one's brain to the point of being unable to do this calculation.
one is supposed to drink lesheim shomayim, to be cheerful. getting drunk as a skunk is not it.
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amother
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Sat, Mar 18 2006, 11:56 pm
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just like our husbands are nice and allow us to do things that are always plesent for them,, wives should do the same and let their usbands have a good time for one day!
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queen
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 12:44 am
| chen wrote: | | one is supposed to drink lesheim shomayim, to be cheerful. getting drunk as a skunk is not it. |
irks me to no end seeing drunk men a I don't believe that is what Hashem intended for us.
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PinkandYellow
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 12:55 am
Chen, I think you misunderstood my post. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer.
Firstly, I know this guy extremely well (close fam member)
2nd, I understand that being serious and being happy aren't mutually exclusive. I myself am a happy person with a very serious personality.
3rd, I am not talking about someone becoming a drunk! I am merely talking about a personality type where someone is so unhappy, that unfortunately, even the thought of doing something which mite make him happy is anathema to him. He cannot relax or do something that mite make him relax. The way most ladies on this thread described their husbands as getting "just drunk enough to be really funny", not mean or sick.
We are talking drinking one day out of 365, thats all, not a more regular basis from one day a year.
And I think that if a man shoulders his responsibility to family, wife and kids, throughout the year he deserves a little slack on Purim. (And I worked on Purim and took care of my baby as my dh drank and I'm happy for dh that he "had his day").
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chen
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 1:06 am
| Crayon210 wrote: | | Why would a wife have the "right" to ask her husband not to drink or get drunk--especially on Purim (unless there were extenuating circumstances, like she was sick and needed him to help her, etc.)? |
why wouldn't she, if his drinking distresses her?
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PinkandYellow
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 1:18 am
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Why does it distress her? What is her real issue?
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ChavieK
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 10:19 am
My dh drinks on Purim, but never gets very drunk, always remembers things the next day.This year he had to see a client at 8 the next am so he went to 6:30 minyan.
I can't understand needing to let loose or whatever the terminology since when does Torah to let us lose control even one day a year? I can't imagine that is what Purim is about , the holiday we compare with Yom Kipur?
My ds told me his Rebbis son drank a bit much & started davening Maariv in Yom Kipur tunes. I was pretty impressed that his manifestation of drinking was Tfilah. How many men who drink on Purim can say that?I don't think that men who are so drunk as do be throwing up are thinking Torah thoughts.Maybe I'm wrong & in between bouts of vomit they are sitting & learning!! 
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yedidya's mom
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 11:15 am
".Maybe I'm wrong & in between bouts of vomit they are sitting & learning!"
Actually my sister's chassan was at her seuda and he was drunk and going on and on abt how nothing is neutral and everything we do is avodas hashem" - and then went straight to the bathroom where he threw up and stayed for the next 4 hrs. bec. he was too sick to get up. lol
Our seuda was lots of fun- a good time was had by all. all the men got drunk or at least tipsy and were acting very funny but still appropriate. my husband was syaing divrei torah and crying at times and giving out all the money we had in the house to matanos laevyonim.
I agree though that it is a very fine balance between enjoying purim and getting carried away and acting in an unbecoming fashion. bh the people at our seuda knew their limits and stuck to them (my sisters chassan is only 23 and will hopefully learn!) people who cant trust themselves to act appropriately shouldnt drink but who can enforce something like that?
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amother
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 11:58 am
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cahviek, the reason it is compared to yom kippur is because it is our neshama connecting to hashem.. we levae our boudries by drinking and are bsimcha.... its us and hashem... no explanations... we just dance and are happy for that connection!
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shira
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 3:24 pm
"Chayav Inish Livisu Mai......" Isn't it a mitzva to drink on Purim?
A person needs to know their themselves and their limits because 'nichnas yayin yatza sod'. When you drink, everything comes out. So, if you are a ben torah, thats what comes out and if you are not...............
My husband took my 3.5 yr old on his lap and tried to convince him that haman was a tzadik. My son countered, "Lo nachon!!! Mordechai Haya Tzadik!" (nachas.... )
I love seeing my husband drunk. I've never seen him (chas v'shalom) do anything inappropriate. The wine just makes my very very litvishe husband a shtikel chassidish  .
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gryp
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Sun, Mar 19 2006, 3:53 pm
| Quote: | | The wine just makes my very very litvishe husband a shtikel chassidish . |
shira, I like that line
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