michael jackson died...

leomom

Sat, Jun 27 2009, 11:29 pm

Clarissa wrote:

costanza wrote:

And why can't people have emotions about Michael Jackson and Israeli soldiers and sick Jewish children all at the same time? Are we so simple in our thinking that we can't feel bad about all of these things at once?

That comment about soldiers and children led to this? :

Quote:

You honestly think it's OK to compare Jackson & blown-up Jewish children who die while sitting on a bus in Jerusalem or tortured Israeli soldiers?

Are you sure, yy, that the tortured soldiers/blown up children thing wasn't in response to some other comment, that was deleted?

Apparently not, but since I'm not a mod I can't be sure.

Quote:

If not, it's official, Imamother has become a game of Telephone. I take back what I said.

I'll go listen to "I'll be There" again, now. I'd forgotten how pretty it was. Carry on.

Here is another very beautiful song:

Mirabelle

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 7:20 am

I agree also that some of the responses here have been very harsh.

I think my sadness about his death has to do with MY memories that his music is associated with. I also feel sad that such an obviously talented person met such an unfortunate end. I read an interesting article over the weekend in the NY that said that now that he has passed there actually is a chance his children might inherit some of his fortune since he can't continue all the irresponsible spending of the last few years...

I wonder what will happen to his kids. Has anyone seen pictures of them? I have a lot of friends that are half African American and half white and none of them look as white as his kids. I wonder if he was really their biological father, I bet this will come up in the "custody" battle that is for sure to take place.

I don't know about you all, but while I was running my Shobbos errands on Friday I very much enjoyed the MJ tributes on the radio.

shosh

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 10:19 am

Two of his kids are Jewish - those by Debbie Rowe. I don't understand why there should be a custody battle (unless I've missed something). Wouldn't she automatically get custody of her own kids? And if so, I wonder if she'll raise them as Jews and if they know at all that this is what they are?

Mirabelle

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 11:18 am

Oh there will be a custody battle...I read a whole bunch of articles this morning about it (I am on partial bedrest...lots of time to read online LOL).

Apparently she was paid (by MJ) to give up custody of the kids....now his parents (or rather his mother) wants custody. There is also a nanny that was mentioned? Either way, this is all bizarre and not straight forward in anyway.

I also am very curious if the kids will be raised Jewish in anyway...there is also always a chance that they will discover their roots when they get older and are allowed more into the real world.

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 11:34 am

The complication is that Rowe may have had more of a paid arrangement (as surrogate, with some extra benefits) and people he's closer to may have the idea that he wanted them to raise the children. Also, she's only mother to two of them and not the third, which means the three might be split up. Third, his father was abusive to him, and having his children raised by his aging parents, particularly that father, is questionable. Hopefully a friend or sibling will get custody.

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 11:43 am

I go to this other message board where people are really cynical, and no comment is deemed inappropriate or off-limits. No hugs, no warmth, just cynical comments on society. I avoided it after MJ's death because I wasn't in the mood to check in and see peoples' snide reactions to the event. Funny thing is, I checked in last night, and there were only five comments, and they were VERY tame compared to what was said here, on a site I deemed the kinder, gentler site. Also, none of the illogical stuff you see here, about how anybody who waxes the tiny bit sentimental must be insensitive to real suffering.

Just an observation, not anything major. Message boards are message boards, what can you do.

Mirabelle

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 11:53 am

Clarissa wrote:

Very interesting.
This reminds me of when I was growing up in Bais Yaakov and a famous "grunge" singer killer himself. I was moping around and one of the rebbes made a really snide remark about why was I in a bad mood just because "some idiot killed himself." Yeah, that made me feel sooo much better! Exploding anger

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 11:57 am

One of the many reasons I appreciate my wonderful parents is that, when I was a kid, if I was sad about the death, or whatever, of someone famous, even someone they didn't particularly respect, they were always really sweet, never said anything denigrating about the person. Janis Joplin comes to mind, but I'm sure there were others. They just understood that I was sad and didn't see at as an opportunity to trivialize my feelings. One of the many reasons I never really rebelled -- I got so much respect from them, and didn't have my feelings invalidated. I know this is off-topic, but it's my response to your story about K. Cobain. At least I assume that's who you were talking about.

Last edited by Clarissa on Sun, Jun 28 2009, 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 1:31 pm

Funny, had he stayed healthy but say, would have been convicted of molestation, most people would have been glad, not in a schadenfruede way but to see justice done.
But a tragic death like this makes most thinking people see the whole picture of the tragedy that was his life, which may explain why most people's comments are tame. As for those who don't, I personally am not turned off by it. In the grand scheme of things, as talented as he was, his life was so trivial and meaning-free. One of the right wing talk show hosts (not Jewish) l listen to took that tack, calling him a freak, abuser, not worth wasting the air time or energy on. And while I'm really big on divrei chachamim b'nachas nishma'im ( not that I call this guy a chochom, just that I have a great appreciation for gentle speech) I get him to.

HindaRochel

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 2:08 pm

[quote="fayge"]

Quote:

Funny, had he stayed healthy but say, would have been convicted of molestation, most people would have been glad, not in a schadenfruede way but to see justice done.

Or if he were in prison and then started singing and showed talent, I wouldn't most people be turned off?

*Snip*

Quote:

In the grand scheme of things, as talented as he was, his life was so trivial and meaning-free.

I agree. He was an entertainer and it was him first.

Which talk show host? pm me if you are afraid you'll get jeered or something.

greenfire

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 2:34 pm

Clarissa wrote:

I love janis joplin's song bobby mcgee ... brings back nostalgic memories ... thanks to you I just read about her life and was intrigued because I had no idea she died - let alone young - despite having her records ... plus she had one kool psychedelic car ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janis_Joplin

shosh

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 2:38 pm

Sorry, but I can't let this custody thing go from my mind, and I also feel sorry for those poor kids.

First of all, even if Debbie Rowe was paid off, she's still the mother of two of them. When she lost custody, I would still imagine that doesn't mean she gave up on being their mum. And if she wants them back, why not? And even if she doesn't, surely she has some responsibility for them by virtue of being their mother. Secondly, no one knows who the mother of the last kid was, but if she came forward and managed to prove it, why shouldn't she have her child back also for the same reasons?

I also feel desperately sorry for these kids who appear (to me at least) to have been brought into the world purely for one man's narcissism. Their names say it all - each one, even the girl, is called "Michael Jackson." It makes me wonder what kind of upbringing they've had so far, nebach ... I don't know what Debbie Rowe is like, but I would hope she could take her children back and go as far as she can from the limelight with them and try to give them as normal a life as possible ....

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 3:09 pm

Slightly off topic, but check out George Foreman's kids names:

George VI, George V, George IV (aka Big Wheel), Natalie, Leola, Freeda George, George III, Georgetta, George Jr., Michi

Shosh, I understand what you're saying, but somebody will need to sort out the women and whether they were surrogates or mothers, meaning women with a maternal connection and responsibility to the children. I have several friends who used surrogates, and if both parents died, the babies involved wouldn't go to the surrogates, but to the people who were stipulated as guardians in the parents' wills. It's complicated in Debbie Rowe's situation, since she was, at one point, involved with the children, and it's unknown what the arrangement was from Day 1. Also, nobody knows if Jackson was genetically related to the children, although that will probably be deemed irrelevant, as he was obviously their father.

Complicated.

Mirabelle

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 3:22 pm

I believe Debbie Rowe did sue for custody a while back and was turned down...or bought off with more money.

She was actually married to Michael during the birth of those kids, so I am not exactly sure it is fair to refer to her as a surrogate per se....then again, who knows, maybe there are legal documents addressing all this.

Yes, its super complicated! He also raised those kids in a very bizarre world...away from other children and the outside world. Who knows what they are like?

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 3:25 pm

You may be right. But something was fishy about the whole arrangement. Oh well, it'll all come out in court, I suppose. And we'll all be listening to it unfold, for years.

Mirabelle

Sun, Jun 28 2009, 3:41 pm

Yes and apparently Debbie Rowe is shopping around a "tell all" book and threatened to publish it if she does not get custody of her children. I can't even imagine what would be written there!