Giving a Pregnant woman your seat

amother

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 8:59 am

Do you think when a pregnant woman gets on a full bus or train someone should stand up for her and give her their seat or she should stand because she chose to get on a full bus?

Before I was ever pregnant I thought it was so rude and inconsiderate for a pregnant woman to get on a full bus knowing there is no seat and stand in front of a youngish girl or married woman with her stomach in their face waiting for them to get up.

Now I am pregnant for the first time, and about 95 percent of the time I do not get on the bus if I know it is full. But, just the other day I was waiting for a bus that only comes once every 2.5 hours and I just had to get on. This was to Kever Rachel and it was all frum people. Let me tell you, I am in my 40th week, it was BOILING hot outside, not to mention I feel the heat more than anyone else, and NO ONE got up for me.

Is it wrong of me to be upset about this??? Would you have said something?? Should I not have gotten on the bus??

RachelEve14

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:04 am

Someone should get up, but there are a lot of reason why they might not. My friend once told me when she was pregnant everyone gave her dirty looks for sitting in the early months when she was very sick, and everyone got up for her at the end when she really didn't need it.

I don't think it's very safe for a heavily pregnant woman to stand on the bus (you lose your center of gravity and fall more easily). Once I had a problem on a bus (I was 34 weeks with twins) and another woman started screaming at the young men to get up. Finally an 80 year old man did. I felt really bad but I did sit. Then one of the y ounger men got up for the old man. In the end it all works out.

sunspot

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:17 am

you have do be dan lkaf zchus younger pple that are not pregnant either--personally even though I am young I find it very difficult to stand forlarge amounts of time so if there is a seat I sit and will not get up for pple cuz I need the seat myself--unless it is very very extentuating circumstances and noone gets up for someone that is very sick, can't walk etc.

sunspot

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:19 am

just to add 1 more thing--if you are pregant even if it is not visible and noone gets up for you do what I did I asked someone young to please give me their seat cuz I could not stand for one moment longer. You have to open your mouth if noone gets up otherwise you only have yourself to thank for

ora_43

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:20 am

amother wrote:

Do you think when a pregnant woman gets on a full bus or train someone should stand up for her and give her their seat or she should stand because she chose to get on a full bus?

They should stand.

She didn't choose to get on a full bus, she chose to get on A bus. Obviously if there are two buses leaving at the same time for the same destination, and one is full and the other half-empty, she should get on the latter -- but that tends not to be the case. It's not like pregnant women are "choosing" full buses vs. some equally viable option.

Quote:

Before I was ever pregnant I thought it was so rude and inconsiderate for a pregnant woman to get on a full bus knowing there is no seat and stand in front of a youngish girl or married woman with her stomach in their face waiting for them to get up.

Really? What did you expect pregnant women to do? Buy cars? Only take the bus late at night and early in the morning? Stay home for nine months?

Why should a youngish girl or other non-pregnant woman have a "right" to a particular seat, just because she got on a stop earlier? The person with the "right" to the seat is the one who needs it more. If people aren't willing to play by those rules (ie, they aren't willing to stand for someone who needs the seat more), let THEM be the ones to take the bus only before 6am or after 10, or to buy their own car, or to stay home.

Quote:

Is it wrong of me to be upset about this??? Would you have said something?? Should I not have gotten on the bus??

No, it's not wrong to be upset. Yes, I would have said something. Specifically, "can I please sit down." And no, you were not wrong in getting on the bus.

baba

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:26 am

I noticed that the people that got up for me were usually women who were at an age that they had probably children of their own.

I also noticed that it's worse in Israel than in chul (Europe). I think cause in chul it's such an exception, and it is treated that way. In Israel, especially in e religious area, chances are there's more than one pregnant woman on the bus.

dee's mommy

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:27 am

I don't remember many people standing for me. And I remember standing on many a crowded bus, tryhing to hold on to a back pack.

There was one time I remember, in the the later stages of my pregnancy, that I had to get up for someone else. It was a very crowded bus, and people were standing, and I was lucky and had the priority seat at the front of the bus. (The only one.) This seat is reserved for pregnant women and physically handicapped passengers. I wasn't sitting in that seat very long, when someone who walked using two crutches got on. I had to give up my seat. What I remember most was that I was very annoyed. And also angry with myself that I was annoyed. I was probably the only Jew on the bus, and if my annoyance showed on my face, what a chilul Hashem! I had to tell myself that Baruch Hashem, I was in complete health, and the other person needed crutches to walk. (I was still both annoyed at the situation and angry with myself after telling myself this.)

I'm sure one of the reasons that very few people stood for me was because it was winter and perhaps my stomach was hidden under my coat.

Raisin

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:32 am

All I can say is, it's easy to be upset at people until you are in their place. If I was pregnant and waiting for a bus I would rather get on a full bus then wait who knows how long till another less full bus comes along, especially if I have other kids at home.

I don't think anyone has to give up their place. You don't have to say please and thank you either. But it's courteous.

jerusalem-girl

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 9:42 am

Raisin wrote:

I don't think anyone has to give up their place. You don't have to say please and thank you either. But it's courteous.

I don't think courtesy is optional.

Dan L'kaf Zechus applies to a certain person in a certain situation. If I see X walking into a treife restaurant, I'm supposed to think, XYZ. But treife food is assur.
So one woman was in here early months, another was very tired...but something is wrong if a visibly pregnant woman has to stand, while young girls sit in seats. We don't have to say 'Dan l'kaf zechus, not getting up for a woman who's expecting is entirely correct.' It's a lack of awareness, which is why I believe o.p. should have said something.

Mrs.K

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 10:39 am

Ironically, I find that the people who stand up for me are usually the elderly! Several times throughout my current pregnancy, senior citizens have gotten up to offer me their seat on a bus. Every time I insisted that they sit since they appear to need it as much as I do but it's so embarrassing that elderly people are getting up to offer me a seat while the 13 year old with his ipod is oblivious.

The only thing we can do is teach our children common courtesy.

Beauticianista

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 11:34 am

This issue is something that really really bothers me. I am now 6 1/2 months pregnant-quite obviously too. In the last month or 2, when I was really showing already, I have had a total of 2 people offering me a seat, and I take the subway twice a day, 5 times a week. There are times when a seat being vacated by a person exiting is not only not offered to me...people have actually run in front of me to grab it. What bothered me the most is that one of these people was a 30's looking frum man. There is no way he did not see me or the fact that I was pregnant and yet he had no problem grabbing the seat out from under me. I am very nauseous this entire pregnancy and if I stand for the entire train ride I end up getting so dizzy I can barely stand. Before I got pregnant I would get up for pregnant women 90% of the time, although I have to admit, I sometimes did it grudgingly. I actually got up for a highly pregnant woman when I was pregnant already but not showing because nobody else would. The fact that so few people actually have the courtesy to get up really really bothers me and I get so mad each and every time it happens. Technically, if I ask someone to get up for me and they refuse they are subject to a $50 fine http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news.....;pg=1 but I am not the type of person that will ask a stranger for a seat. So if you see a pregnant woman, know that she is not standing by choice and please, please offer her your seat. As tired & exhausted as you are, just know that she is feeling even worse, and ask yourself what you would want if you were in her shoes.

anon

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 12:07 pm

I don't understand why you think its rude for a pregnant woman to get on a full bus. Do you think that it feels better to stand at a bus stop than to stand on a bus? And that's assuming that waiting for the next bus will result in a bus that's not full.

And yes, I would also be upset if no one got up for me when I was obviously pregnant. It can be extremely difficult for a pregnant woman to stand in one place for an extended period of time.

greenfire

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 12:29 pm

isn't it ironic that you change your position when it's you that is pregnant ...

I don't expect anything out of life - but I have reprimanded people for not standing up for pregnant women ... I've actually had to sit on the floor on a crowded train when I thought I would pass out ... I've also had elderly women stand up for me when my face was turning colours on the train and I wasn't even pregnant - just ready to pass out ...

I would always stand up when possible ...

maidale

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 12:37 pm

OP, in your case I'd have gone up to the teenager shaking over her tehilim and asked her to give up her seat. It's more important than saying tehillim at that particular moment.
But this problem is not only in Israel, I witnessed an incident on BP-Willi bus one evening which left me angry at the parents!
There were 2 12 yr old boys sitting pretty far back, and it was a packed bus. An older woman got up and ASKED THEM FOR THE SEAT and they simply IGNORED her!!! I was FUMING!!! Not only that, but they got up for a second to whisper something to a friend sitting a little to the front, and when a lady wanted to sit down in their place, they rushed back and pushed them out. it was so disgusting I was glad there were no non jews on the bus to witness this, as I'd have buried my face in shame.

ShirleyTemple

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 12:57 pm

Never been pregnant before, so don't know how it feels...

But, on one occassion, when I was standing next to a pregnant woman, and the seats were occuppied by young ones, (I don't recall, but I think I made the young boy stand up) and had this pg lady take a seat. She was barely carrying herself. She was such a pity to look at.

flowerpower

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 1:03 pm

So first you get angry at pregnant people that come on a full bus and now when the tables are turned you get upset if the ones not pregnant don't get up??? Pregnant and disabled people are not stuped for going on a bus they know will be crowded. If they need to get somewhere then they need a way to get there, no? What else should they do exactly?

I don't know if it's rude to remain sitting after seeing a pregnant woman stand but it sure is the decent thing to do. I never minded getting up to offer someone my seat when needed as a girl because I understood that they need it more then me. Many people don't have menchlichkeit, what can we do? We can teach our kids to be a mentch. At least that much.

maidale

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 1:19 pm

greenfire wrote:

why didn't you say something ?!

Because there were 2-3 ladies already saying something and criticizing them loudly, and they kept ignoring. I wonder what kind of chinuch they get at home.

One lady (a rebetzin) even said: "You'll see boys, in a couple of years there'll be nothing left of those payos!" They just laughed in her face.