Talmud Torah KNeged Kulam

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 6:21 pm

branching off:

Yehudis:

Anybody ever heard of "Talmud Torah keneged kulam"? Any more questions why the gemara asks the question in this way?

mp:

Basically you are saying that learning torah falls into a special category and it is more important than anything else, regardless of whether done by man or woman. As I am typing I think of more questions : First of all, the whole issue of whether torah learning is more important than doing mitzvos is not an easy one. In fact there are plenty of mitzvos that one is allowed to stop learning for. Right ? So does talmud torah keneged kulam really apply in our daily lives ?

fy

1. one learns to apply
2. one learns out of love to the Torah
3. learning w/ out application is worthless, even dangerous - this is why 2nd Bais HaMikdash was destroyed

rg

oreverYoung, where do you get this from?

learning lishmah is when you learn Torah not for applying it. it is THE reason to learn.

Motek

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 6:28 pm

Quote:

there are plenty of mitzvos that one is allowed to stop learning for. Right ?

if there's nobody else around to do them, in which case it's not "allowed" but "obligatory"

Quote:

So does talmud torah keneged kulam really apply in our daily lives ?

huh? do you believe in the eternality of Torah, mp?

Quote:

1. one learns to apply
2. one learns out of love to the Torah

we say in shacharis, before Shema:

"give our heart understanding to comprehend and to discern to perceive, to learn, to teach, to observe, and to do, and to fulfill all the teachings of Your Torah with love"

so one learns for many reasons, all of which ought to be lishma - for the sake of heaven

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 9:13 pm

rg, I do not remember,
but the issue was that the Jews didn't say the blessing before learning
and Torah was an intellectual pursuit.

the generation still transgressed, and so B HaMikdash was destroyed

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 9:17 pm

actually, if learning would sease completely even for 1 sec, the world would stop existing (sorry too tired - cannot remember the word for it)

Just think of it - you, you little child, or your husband can be supporting the entire world!!!!

I find this idea absolutely awesome!!!!!!! 8)

Motek

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 11:04 am

ForeverYoung wrote:

but the issue was that the Jews didn't say the blessing before learning
and Torah was an intellectual pursuit.

that's a whole lot different than what you said earlier (about application)! The way you write it now is correct. Smile

(though it requires explanation)

gryp

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 2:53 pm

Quote:

rg, I do not remember,
but the issue was that the Jews didn't say the blessing before learning
and Torah was an intellectual pursuit.

FY, that is very different than learning Torah for a reason of not applying it!!! learning lishmah is the highest motive for learning Torah, and learning for intellectualism is the lowest!!!

lets differentiate here.