caffeine suppositories

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

Caffeine suppositories

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chocolate moose

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 1:22 pm

did anyone ask a rov if such a thing is ok to use ?

shosh

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 1:32 pm

I guess I must have the constitution of a rhinoceros then! I drink loads of coffee, but as I don't have a Shabbos urn I didn't have any the entire Rosh Hashanah. And I didn't get even one headache from its absence. And even if I did, I'd rather get a thousand headaches than use even one suppository!!!! Ughh!!! That's called having it really bad ...

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 1:37 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

did anyone ask a rov if such a thing is ok to use ?

did anyone ask you for ur offtopic input?

ShakleeMom

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 4:27 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

did anyone ask a rov if such a thing is ok to use ?

I don't involve my rav in my backdoor business. OP - every big pharmacy that fills prescriptions will make it for you. I wrote that on my second post. Hatzlacha.

Raizle

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 6:28 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

Aren't headaches part of inui ?

ok if you say so. LOL
inui nefesh means self denial doesn't it?
so if you say headaches are one of the inuim then that means I can deny myself a headache Tongue Out

ok seriously now as far as I'm aware there are 5 inuyim listed : eating and drinking, washing, anointing with oil, wearing leather shoes, and intimacy.

Using suppositories isn't listed as one of them.

Quote:

did anyone ask a rov if such a thing is ok to use ?

Why would one need to?
It's not under any of the categories of inuyim that I've ever heard about?

Mama Bear

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 7:37 pm

then it would be wrong to sniff vicks inhalers/snuff, it would be wrong to lay down and take a nap, wrong to take any vitamins/B12 shot before, since youre 'supposed to suffer'???

thats where youre wrong. you have to make the fast as easy as you possibly can for yourself, w/o actually breaking the fast. especially if you have to watch little kids on YK.

Raizle

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 9:15 pm

don't forget lemons with cloves poked into them. Isn't it a custom to have those around in shul to sniff at if one is feeling faint?

As far as I understand you are SUPPOSED to do whatever you can to make the fast easier to do.
It's the fasting -the self denial of food and drink that's the most important thing, not the side affects.

ra_mom

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 10:28 pm

ShakleeMom wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

did anyone ask a rov if such a thing is ok to use ?

I don't involve my rav in my backdoor business.

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2009, 11:48 pm

Thank you all for your wonderful and some humorous and some annoying comments.

our local pharmacy makes them himself, sells them 30 shekel for 3 or 5 for 50.

so I thank you in advance for my smooth riding fast Smile

OP here

ora_43

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 12:16 am

Raizle wrote:

As far as I understand you are SUPPOSED to do whatever you can to make the fast easier to do.
It's the fasting -the self denial of food and drink that's the most important thing, not the side affects.

With apologies to the OP for the hijack - this isn't quite true. You're supposed to do whatever you can to make the fast possible (eating and drinking a lot beforehand, etc), and you're supposed to eat a nice big meal beforehand, and you certainly don't have to intentionally make it worse - but taking pills to make it easy is a problem. For example, I've only heard of "kal tzom" pills (pills here in Israel that supposedly make fasting easier) being approved for pregnant and nursing women and people who really, really don't fast well.

Of course the side effects of the denial of food and drink are important. It's written in the Torah! It doesn't say "don't eat and drink," it says "v'anitem et nafshotechem." The "side effect" of affliction is actually the ikkar.

Raizle

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 12:40 am

preventing a possible migraine is simply making the fast easy?
You do realize that migraines is not a typical side affect of fasting unless someone has a caffeine addiction? it's not the same as just feeling weak and hungry, migraines can be quite debilitating!

amother

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 12:43 am

not op, but have been following this thread.

I have yet to check with my lor, but just so that you know, I only have a cup of coffee a day and if I dont, I get a serious migraine and usually throw up from caffeine withdrawal. it is a serious thing.

chocolate moose

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 7:05 am

Inui = torture

ora_43

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 7:14 am

Raizle wrote:

Now you're arguing a different point already.

What you said earlier:

Quote:

As far as I understand you are SUPPOSED to do whatever you can to make the fast easier to do.

This implies that there is no limit to how far we can go in making the fast easy, including perfectly healthy people taking "tzom kal" pills, etc. That is not true.

However, of course there are limits in the other direction as well. I never said OP was wrong to do what she's doing. Your logic as to why it's allowed is what I was disagreeing with, but I'm not saying there's no heter for people who would be extremely ill without caffeine (like how I said earlier that people who would be very ill otherwise ARE allowed tzom kal pills).

BTW caffeine causes problems beyond just withdrawal - caffeine is a diuretic, so if you're drinking caffeine in the days leading up to the fast (and if you take pills on the fast itself), you're causing yourself to dehydrate more quickly, which of course will make the fast harder. So while caffeine pills might help with the more immediate withdrawal symptoms, the way to feel best is to quit caffeine entirely at least 3 days beforehand (which nobody says is problematic, halacha-wise).

Mama Bear

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 9:41 am

I take tzom kal pills, vitamins, drink performance by shaklee for days before. I dont understand why youre not supposed to try to make the fast as easy as possible. I have to take care of my kids and daven as much as possible - and if I dont do all that, it is not possible. I am a bad faster.

ShakleeMom

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 9:48 am

amother wrote:

\
me too.

and OP, glad I was the first to tell you to go to the pharmacy... and also the first to attempt to unhijack the thread... guys, get a grip!

Mrs. XYZ

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 10:06 am

Quote:

This implies that there is no limit to how far we can go in making the fast easy, including perfectly healthy people taking "tzom kal" pills, etc. That is not true.

wow, I never heard there was any issue with anyone taking kali tzom (or anything) before the fast.
This thread was talking about taking/doing things on the fast day (which I would definitely ask a shaila about).

ShakleeMom

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 10:14 am

ladies, a fast is a fast. you're supposed to stay off food and drink. End of story. Why glorify it and torture yourself... soon you will say that it's also crucial to run a 20 mile marathon to dehydrate yourself to feel the pain? get a life.

Mrs. XYZ

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 10:21 am

Quote:

ladies, a fast is a fast. you're supposed to stay off food and drink. End of story.

So why not take a tylenol or caffeine pill by mouth? its not food or drink.

Cdlf

Tue, Sep 22 2009, 10:28 am

Cant imagine fasting without my tylenol with caffeine suppository! I do drink energy drinks and caffeine right before but wouldnt be able to daven or even talk without it! But truthfully I never asked a shaila, but my mom has been doing it since I'm a kid! Its part of how I was taught to do yom Kippur!!

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