Putting away the Pesach dishes

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

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TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 5:07 am

How long does it take you to wash, pack up and put them away? It seems to take me roughly five hours, with my helpers (dh and 2 teen children working in shifts) I think it takes me longer than anyone else! Sad

I have more Pesachdike pots and pans, jars, appliances than for the rest of the year shock

or so it seems. (I can't start washing some of them up on Chol HaMoed, because on Pesach we don't use the hot tap water or dishwashing lotion.)

so I'm curious, how long does it take you?

binah918

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 5:12 am

I just got married and while we ate number of meal out, I still had to fully prepare my kitchen and make a few dishes to bring to our hosts (for kashrus reasons..) So I purchased:

-1 cutting board
-2 knives
-1 pot
-1 pan
-5 tupperware containers
-5 plastic mixing bowls
-2 dishtowels

Motzei chag it took me no more that 20 minutes to wash the dishes, pack them away and tear down the tin foil in the kitchen...if only I could anticipate it being this easy in years to come!

Mishie

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 7:02 am

It took me about an hour.
We were in a big rush... we wanted to get the dough started, and have those hot rolls coming out of the oven a.s.a.p!!!!!!!! LOL

BTW, about your minhag of not washing dishes on Pesach... Can you explain it to the rest of us?
and also, where do you put all those dirty dishes during the whole chag? Does the food on the them get all hard?

All I can say is: "WOW!!!"
I don't know what I would do!!!!!!!!!!

You must be an amazing woman!!!!

8)

chocolate moose

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 9:15 am

it seems to take other people longer than us too, and we have tons of stuff, but it's all stored in a very fa'kvetched place.

H. Maybe it's streamlining.

Our boxes are labeled with what goes back inside, plus where they are stored. .....we check the fridge & freezer several times before washing up...everyone helps........

TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 9:21 am

Mishie wrote:

LOL.

Of course I wash the dishes all Pesach, just I have to boil/warm up the water on the stove, and use no detergent, so it takes longer, is less effective. (just scrub with salt, as others who use no detergent). I need to wash them OVER before I put them away, Motzei YomTov I can use the hot water and dishsoap.

realeez

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 9:42 am

Very interesting!
What's the reason for not using hot tap water over Pesach? Why is it OK after Yom Tov? Do you use cold tap water on Pesach?

I love hearing other people's minhagim!

ektsm

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 10:11 am

I thought you could use hot tap on yom tov just not on shabbos? You saying not use hot tap water the whole pesach? Is it chametz?

TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 10:24 am

There is a halachic reason if you live a building with any other tenants who might be using chometz, and you are both using the hot water at the same time, e.g. it's flowing through both taps and connected through the pipes. Since on Pesach chometz is b'mashehu, and not botul like all year, this is a problem. However, after Pesach it is no longer a problem.

In addition, the Lubavitcher Rebbe requested of his Chassidim not to use hot water (even if halachically permitted). This is something I've heard, but I don't have a written source, just something Chassidim say.

I'd heard also that sometimes, plumbers have this trick of repairing boilers, or pipes with chometz. I thought that sounded farfetched, but that was until.....once our boiler was leaking, and we thought it was in general on its last legs and we would have the expense of replacing it Sad

Our plumber, a heimishe Yid told us that one thing might help... run out to the store and buy some oatmeal, he told us! He made some kind of a patch with the oatmeal, which hardened and plugged up the leak, and pulled us through the rest of the winter! (we eventually had to change the boiler). it seems that this trick is quite common, and not at all farfetched.

It was then that I realized the Rebbe's far-reaching insight, and was thankful that I always refrained from using hot water until then, even though that house belonged to us, and our tenants were frum Jews. because now I saw how true it was that there could be chometz in the pipes!

Yes, we use cold tap water throughout Pesach.

shalhevet

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 4:03 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

because on Pesach we don't use the hot tap water or dishwashing lotion.)

Just curious. Why don't you use dishwashing soap? At least here in Israel we have with excellent hechsherim like the Eida Chareidis.

mummy-bh

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 4:26 pm

sarayehudis - I've never heard that before about not using the hot tap. Thank you for explaining. But now I don't understand why is using the COLD water not a problem if the pipes are possibly patched up with oatmeal?

Motek

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 5:07 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

I don't understand this. Clean water comes out throught the taps, right? So what's the problem with other tenants? What

Quote:

Yes, we use cold tap water throughout Pesach.

and to repeat mommy's questions: why doesn't the same problem that applies to hot apply to cold? and why use it on your Pesach keilim after Pesach?

back to your original question: it takes my husband and me about 3 hours

TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 5:57 pm

Quote:

I don't understand this. Clean water comes out throught the taps, right? So what's the problem with other tenants?

It's that the water that is flowing through your tap may possibly be flowing through their's at the same time. So halachically the water is connected. For example, if one pours from a hot kettle into a cup of hot milchig cocoa say, to add some water, the direct connection between the flowing kettle and water with hot liquid - e.g. the water pouring between the two - will halachically render the kettle milchig as well.

Since during the year, this would not pose a problem in the event that the other tenant was washing treife dishes, because the principle of being nullified by 60 ( in a ratio of permissible to forbidden) would apply. Chometz on Pesach itself is not botul b'shishim. But after Pesach it is, so therefore one could wash the dishes with hot water, even when the possibility exists that it's connected through the pipes with hot tap water being simultaneously used with chometz. I've seen this addressed in Rabbi Blumenkrantz's Pesach Digest, and according to his explanation, some view this more as a chumra rather than as a halacha, and others as the halacha, but of course it would depend on what your own Rav would pasken. In our community this seems to be the accepted practice, with which my husband grew up.

Quote:

and to repeat mommy's questions: why doesn't the same problem that applies to hot apply to cold? and why use it on your Pesach keilim after Pesach

?

Whenever a shailoh occurs, the psak could depend on various factors: one of which is: was the water/ utensil hot?

The reason is that heat - in this case hot water -allows for the absorption of the forbidden taam.

Motek

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 6:12 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

the example of pouring from a hot kettle into a milchig cocoa - isn't the issue there that the steam will rise from the milchig cocoa?

I still do not know what you mean when you say that the water flowing through your tap may be flowing through someone else's at the same time! How could the same water be flowing out of different taps simultaneously? What is flowing here is not flowing there!

Quote:

I've seen this addressed in Rabbi Blumenkrantz's Pesach Digest

which section?

shanie5

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 6:56 pm

ok, I'll try to clarify what sy is saying:
you and your tenent both have the hot water running. she to fill her cup of cocoa, you to wash your fleishy dishes.
the water runs thru the same pipes-just goes a bit further for one of you cuz you live upstairs. so the same rush of water running thru the pipes is all connected-even though its not the same drops of water that you are both using.
think of it this way: when you pour out boiling water from a pot, it goes in a continuous stream from the pot to the sink, thereby connecting the 2 items. what sy is saying is its basically the same thing btw her and the other tenants in the building-one continuous flow of water conecting both the dairy cocoa and the fleishy dishes.

TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 7:07 pm

Quote:

the example of pouring from a hot kettle into a milchig cocoa - isn't the issue there that the steam will rise from the milchig cocoa?

no, it's not the deposit of steam on the kettle, but the actual water in the kettle merging with the hot liquid in the cup, becoming one and the same through the direct connecting line of what's being poured. Sorry if I'm not being clear. This is a concept I heard about years ago, in a different context, can't remember what. something with Kashrus obviously, not specifically Pesach.

Quote:

Quote:
I've seen this addressed in Rabbi Blumenkrantz's Pesach Digest

which section

sorry, Motek, I combed through the book, but couldn't find it in this year's issue. It was actually in a previous year edition that I came across it.

realeez

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 7:13 pm

back to my question, why can you use that same water to wash your dishes after pesach? doesn't it "chometz up" your dishes for the next year?

we take out the piece that the water comes out from on the tap on pesach - especially that mesh piece b/c of the worry of steam from pasta or whatever from teh year.

what if you don't live in an apartment? does it still apply?

also, maybe this is a weird question but someone I know, not lubavitch, was drinking evian water on pesach (which has an ou-p) and the person made a big deal to say that the lubavitcher rebbe approves of this... what does that mean?

TzenaRena

Sun, Apr 23 2006, 10:57 pm

mommyabc123, the reason the hot water doesn't chometz up your dishes after Pesach as opposed to on Pesach is because of the principle of bittul b'shishim. The forbidden taam is nullified, which is not the case on Pesach, when chometz of even the minutest amount doesn't get botul.

For what you are saying about the piece with the mesh at the end of the faucet, being affected by steam, hot water: We do kasher the faucets and handles, and change the faucet heads.

If you live in your own house, not an apartment, yes, it is halachacally permitted to use the hot water, if your faucets and sink are kashered properly. it's just that I believe the Rebbe asked for his Chassidim not to, so many do not. It would probably be in the area of chumra, but Chassidim would feel obligated anyway, even though it was a request, not an instruction.

about whether the Rebbe said anything about evian drinking water, I have no idea. I have never heard of this.

And to answer mummy of 6 about the dishwashing soap: we generally are careful not to use manufactured items, processed foods. even though this isn't a food, but it's related and goes on dishes Wink

We do use it motzei yomtov bec. after Pesach it's not as strict, since the issur of chometz is not b'ma'she'hu like on Pesach and does get nullified if there is a very minute amount (less than 1/60 to permissible).

I'm not sure how many people still don't use the soap though. The more research that is done, people do rely that they could use something researched and found OK, from the non-food items. For example, we grew up never having plastic. No plastic tablecloths, no plastic cups, dinnerware, cutlery. There was a suspicion that plastic was made using alcohol.

Both my parents, and my in-laws didn't use it, but perhaps twenty years ago the Rav in our community researched plastic, and told us that it was fine, and did not have alcohol that would be problematic (if it did have alcohol it was synthetic etc.).

Now we davka use plastic because it gets around the shruya(matzo that got wet) problem very nicely. Whereas ordinarily extreme caution is excercised to make sure no crumbs get on the table, or into the dishes on it, sometimes crumbs will land there, and the dish must be immediately washed. With the plastic plates, every plate is brand-new, and never had crumbs in it that became inadvertantly shruya. And the disposable tableliners... they save the actual tablecloth from getting wet with crumbs on it . So plastic is now a hiddur! Who knows what surprise happy endings are in store next? Smile

chocolate moose

Mon, Apr 24 2006, 9:55 am

Sara Yehudis, all chometz-talk aside, I assume the reason it takes you a few hours longer than others is b/c of all the washing up afterwards, with the dishwashing detergent.

Is there nothing natural you can use during Pesach? I know you can't soak but what about water warmed on the stove?

chen

Mon, Apr 24 2006, 11:40 am

just 5 hours? can you show me what you do to do it so fast? even with the teens helping, it takes all night to unPesach our house. I do most of it b/c I am the only one who has an inkling how to fit everything back in the storage boxes and the boxes back in the closet. (and they say women have poor spatial reasoning--HA!)

gryp

Mon, Apr 24 2006, 12:03 pm

SY- growing up I lived in my own house and we didnt use hot tap water on Pesach either. so I guess its not just if you live in a building.

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