Fancy ladies at the park

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tachles

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 1:43 am

amother wrote:

First this thread began with a strong opinion about women dressing fancy in parks. In the end, it digressed to a strong opinion against shaitels.
A woman is a daughter of the king. Shouldn't a daughter of a king dress well?
For a positive view on shaitels, I would suggest people read what the Lubavitcher Rebbe wrote about sheitels. He said that although a married woman's hair is considered erva, women can wear beautiful shaitels and that covering all of one's hair brings blessings.
As far as long shaitels and high heels, one should ask and follow what their rav says.
We cover our hair because it is Hashem's will. As daughters of the king, we should have all have respect for each other

I agree this thread really went off topic.
The point it seems op was trying to make, that I understand too, was that being overdressed ( fancy sheitel , heavy makeup and I’m not saying skin issues I mean heavy eye make up with lipstick and blush, fancy outfit , high heels ) seems out of place at the park.
Maybe it’s fun for them to get dressed up and all that , or they left work or another meeting dressed this way.
I personally feel more comfortable in casual clothing and “ daytime “ make up looks on my self.
I also don’t have issues with anyone wearing shetiels but I find mine too irritating in hot weather while I’m in the park.
That said—tznius is about not being s.xually provocative and whoever here said they think a scarf, which is in some locals more noticeably different, is therefore not tzanua is kidding herself and she can find better reasons to feel justified in wearing a wig , as so many rabbis (of every sect pretty much )have spoken in favor of it, than this denial ridden idea that a scarf is not modest because it provokes attention. It’s not s.xual attention that it provokes!
I wonder if the women saying this are wearing cheap, unnatural looking, short not styled not modern cut or colored plain wigs , or if they’ve got some really s.xy wigs on.
Be real. If your “that tzanua” that you can’t wear a scarf for fear someone will notice you , are you going makeup free with shapeless clothing and all that?
Wigs can be modest , wigs can be s.xy.
skirts and dresses of the right length can be modest or s.xy.
But Not scarfs .
They can be ugly or pretty but not s.xy or seductive.

amother

Slategray

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 2:55 am

tachles wrote:

But Not scarfs .
They can be ugly or pretty but not s.xy or seductive.

Scarves are like any other piece of clothing. They can definitely be s.xy/seductive.
Sure there are a lot of frumpy tichels out there, or just nondescriptive, forgettable ones, but there are also a lot of sensual, regal ones that do border on the s.xy.

BTW there is even a celebrity turban trend right now. Look it up on google. If they were so bland, nobody would be wearing them.

I read an article in the Hebrew press lately about the different scarves the frum are using these days, and the author used the word e-r-otic to describe them. So yeah, even scarves can have a s.xy factor.

(I love seeing all the beautiful scarf coverings out there. In no way do I think women need to stop using scarves or wigs or whatever they want. Just saying that you shouldn't fool yourself, there is no clear line demarcating beautiful and regal from s.xy, and there is a huge grey area in the middle).

tachles

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 11:45 pm

amother wrote:

Ok well I disagree with this statement and the author of the article your referring to .
Scarfs can not be er0tic. Hair could be. Are you talking about a scarf exposing really seductive looking hair ? More than 3 tefachim of gorgeous blown out hair coming out?
Because if your talking about halachically covered hair , the cloth itself isn’t seductive. I challenge you to find a seductive scarf picture and link it.

As to why celebs wear scarfs: to be pretty ? I didn’t say a scarf can’t be pretty or fashionable . Surely not every item celebrities wear is seductive , have you seen them in UGGs? I’ve yet to hear a man say uggs are seductive. Maybe paired with denim cut off shorts.. just as a celebrity might be paring a scarf with low cut shirt. The scarf itself isn’t the er0tic part of her outfit.
Fashion is an art of balance, also celebrities generally aim for balance and artistic displays. The will wear something s.xy with something not.

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:10 am

Often the shaitel itself also isn't the seductive aspect. It's the shaitel WITH the makeup WITH the outfit. There are plenty of completely modest shaitelach.

Unless, of course, you also cover your 8-year-old daughters' hair because otherwise she looks too seductive?

tachles

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:28 am

lol , that scarf is seductive in your eyes? I have no photo editing app but if you can cut this tichel out put it on a face that isn’t making a pouty open mouth pose and doesn’t have heavy eye makeup, I think you’ll see the scarf itself isn’t seductive.
If you have been the amother I’ve been directly posting with you would surely notice I never once said sheitels are inherently immodest, I said myself Sheitls can be immodest or modest depending how it’s styled.
I only said I believe a scarf is inherently not s.xy.
Over here the seductive part is her expression not her tichel.
That’s what I’ve been saying all along.
There were posters here saying that a tichel wearer is attracting attention to herself by virtue of her looking *different* ( in her supposedly very homogeneous non frum setting) and such posters deducted that attention is immodest in and of itself, when I think a tzanua dressed women ( in spirit not just Halacha) will come off as different, unique, pretty or frumpy but not s.xy.
If she’s coming off as s.xy it’s not *due* to her scarf.
This is NOT a sheitel bash, this is a plain “ I’m not convinced a scarf covering your hair is seductive. “

tachles

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:33 am

Man a: man did you see the way she wrapped that fabric on her head?
Man b: yeah, that blush color reminds me of my mother’s curtains. Those knots!
Man c: it’s the hottest scarf I’ve ever seen !

They then ask for her number.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:44 am

Scarves can be s@xy. There are items that I can see being hard pressed to ever call s@xy, like old school orthopedic shoes, but scarves are not one of them.
Most things can be s@xy in the right context. Even socks.
Just because something covers you up, doesnt mean it isnt alluring. In fact the whole point of alluring is to cover some things up. Women who go about half naked may be provocative, but they are not alluring.
I'm going to try to post some pics from Israeli tichel sites to show you what I mean.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:55 am

How do you post pics?.?.
Not links, pictures.

tachles

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 12:59 am

I disagree with you but it’s ok , we can agree to disagree.

A women wearing a scarf can wear a s-xy outfit or makeup.
A women making regular expressions and covered up isn’t seductive by virtue of wearing a scarf.
For example:

A woman wearing no seductive make up, a baggy sweater , sneakers can be s.xy by virtue of one item such as if she’s got on a tight mini skirt correct?

A woman wearing no seductive make up, loose midi skirt, sneakers can be s.xy by virtue of one item which is if she’s got on a tight low cut shirt correct?

Can you honestly tell me a women can wear no seductive makeup , baggy sweater and loose midi skirt with sneakers but still be S.xy by virtue of the “er0tic scarf” covering her hair?

tachles

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:01 am

No idea how to post pictures but I think it’s been discussed so you can search it.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:04 am

amother wrote:

How do you post pics?.?.
Not links, pictures.

quote this. then see below. "upload image" and "post image".

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:06 am

[img]https://I.imgur.com/JVBfAQz.jpg

[/img]

https://I.imgur.com/FPZN6mq.png

https://I.imgur.com/RIlTyJ5.jpg

https://I.imgur.com/AOcKw19.jpg

https://I.imgur.com/GJBNRYU.jp.....q.png
[/img]

[img]https://I.imgur.com/AOcKw19.jpg
[/img]

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:07 am

amother wrote:

quote this. then see below. "upload image" and "post image".

Thanks. I did. I only got to post links. I wanted to post pics....

naturalmom5

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:08 am

tachles wrote:

No idea how to post pictures but I think it’s been discussed so you can search it.

Simple...

1... click upload image below comment box

2... cut and paste url into post image

3.... submit

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:11 am

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:20 am

Thanks! I changed the links to pics.

tachles

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:22 am

I saw your pictures slategray.
Those scarf don’t look seductive at all.
If anything the hair sticking out , the facial expression , the heavy makeup , might be slightly seductive, if at all.
The scarf isn’t.. I’ve tried explaining this many times so I hope I was clear by now.
Scarf Doesn’t = seductive
Seductive makeup, expression and outfit + a scarf = seductive (but less seductive than with hair uncovered or with hair sticking out of tichel)
Normal makeup modest outfit + most elaborate scarf you can think of doesn’t = seductive ( possibly pretty)

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:26 am

I didnt say a scarf is necessarily seductive, just that it can contribute to how alluring an outfit is. It isnt inherently this kadosh piece of cloth that cant attract men.

[img]https://I.imgur.com/u3s1Q8V.jpg

[/img]

amother

Slategray

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:31 am

If anything, many tichels, like the last one, expose the contour of the neck which can be alluring.
You keep saying that only the tichels that expose a few hairs are alluring (such as the first). If hair is so alluring, how come all the singles can expose it all?
Anyway, that was reallllly off topic....just an interesting side note. Ladies, wear what you want to the park.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Aug 28 2018, 1:34 am

tachles wrote:

Tachles - you might not believe this - but me in a beautiful scarf is more attractive than me without one. Whether the scarf is attractive sitting alone on a hanger is as relevant as if my lipstick tube is attractive sitting on my vanity.

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