Attending an event without a direct invitation

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 11:49 am

amother Lotus wrote:

I would not come to a private event unless invited. That being said, different communities have different cultures. If someone is acting totally contrary to the community's culture, it should be a relatively unusual occurrence.

It sounds to me like OP is regularly seeing uninvited guests show up to all kinds of events where she does not think it is appropriate. This tells me there is a disconnect somewhere between OP's expectations and the culture in her community. Otherwise it would not be such a pervasive and regularly recurring phenomenon, with so many people doing it.

I have no idea how often it happens, as BH I've never heard hosts talking about uninvited guests. I happen to know it's happened to me once or twice and I know it happened at the event I was at just now because my friend was panicking in the kitchen to me and her husband. But I do know 100% that this is not the culture in the community. Unless it's an open simcha with a whatsapp flyer or something (like a bris, a vort, etc. where people have sent out public notification/invitations).

Like I said before, I have one friend who I know will bring uninvited guests with her, so it's expected when we invite her to something that she is going to bring people, and yes, she is very socially off and I really stopped inviting her for this reason.

I have to give mega kudos to the hostess, as she greeted everyone warmly and aside from my son who was made to get up (not by her, but by one of the uninvited adult men), she really avoided a potential Kamtza/Bar Kamtza situation.

amother

Jean

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 11:53 am

amother OP wrote:

Sounds like things have changed without you realizing. Perhaps some new people have moved into the community within the past few years and have made it clear that they expect and are happy for anyone who hears of their event to show up, and this has started to spread. If that is the case, there isn't that much to do except to start preparing extra portions from now on.

amother

Lotus

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 11:54 am

amother OP wrote:

I was responding to the below in your OP:

Quote:

I see this happen all the time. It happens to me as well. People bring friends to events that are clearly invitation only.

And also to the below, which made it sound like a lot of additional men showed, not just one or two:

Quote:

She was shocked and panicked when she saw the men keep coming in. This was a very private thing in their home - and they kept coming in.

If it's uncommon and truly limited to the very socially off, then a typical simcha should have enough excess food to absorb an extra 5-10% in attendees.

Edit: even a private siyum or Shabbos meal IME typically has a lot of leftover food.

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:01 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

You are right, I was a inconsistent. It happens to me and it happens to this friend. In the general community I'm not sure how often it happens. Also I'm realizing that the people who tend to show up or come with guests of their own are all form one particular subculture within the community. I would be specific but don't want to offend, so I'm not.

Once, we made a small sheva brachos at my house and we invited a man, who brought the women he was dating (she is that subculture).

Once, we made a small simcha and someone brought her mother and her mother's friend (same subculture).

Made a bar mitzvah, I mentioned it upthread. They brought 5 kids, sat them down at the head table as it was the only place with space), and the kids didn't like the kids buffet so they wanted the adult plated meal (I said no to that) same subculture.

My friend made a wedding and a guest brought her entire family (only the couple was invited) and also brought a few friends... and sat down and ate. Same subculture.

amother

Gray

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:05 pm

That is so weird. Obviously something was seriously off.

I'm not sure why your friend served the lady and her daughters. I would have said, oh the food is for the men and asked them to help serve since why else would they have come?

As for the excess men you are right that it would be inappropriate to differentiate between who was and wasn't invited. But now that the siyum is over maybe they can do a bit of digging to figure out what wires were crossed.

Clearly someone somewhere decided to issue an open invitation to your friend's event.

amother

Gray

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

That explains it a bit more. Were any of them invited? How did they know about it?

amother

Snow

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

OP, like I said, men don't think about these things. They often have no idea what's required to prepare a seuda and just invite everyone they come across. I don't think it's on purpose, I think because they mostly are not involved in preparations they have literally no idea how much work goes into preparing food and the house for guests!

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:10 pm

amother Gray wrote:

That explains it a bit more. Were any of them invited? How did they know about it?

So I answered above actually, we cross posted. It's always a case of one person being invited (ie to a thing where it's appropriate to invite half of a couple) or the couple or single being invited and bringing their kids when specifically asked not to, or bringing friends, etc. It's a case of someone adding a plus one (or more) to an invitation that's clearly not inclusive of more.

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:11 pm

amother Gray wrote:

My friend is amazing and since I was eating, and she and her daughters were eating... and her own daughter just got up to wash.... it would have been rude and caused them embarrassment not to!

amother

Jean

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

Well, then, you have your answer....
Now that you know, you'll know to prepare extra food in cases your officially invited guests bring other members of their family or friends along. There really isn't anything else to do, unless you want to literally turn people away. OTOH, when they make a simcha, you'll know you are welcome to show up and will be greeted happily with no worries that you are taking up a spot or someone else's portion.

WhatFor

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:24 pm

snooper86 wrote:

Maybe people thought they needed help making a minyan, the text kind of seem like they need more people….. or maybe someone was invited with a kid for the minyan but the kid couldn’t make it so he asked a friend instead who invited another friend etc….

This doesn't really happen in my particular community, but that was also my thought when I saw how it was phrased. If they told each invitee that they "needed help" making a minyan, each invitee may have thought they were doing a favor by bringing extra to help make the minyan. It's subtle but there's a difference between phrasing something as "we'd love to invite you to our siyum" and "would you be able to come to help us make a minyan (subtext: which we otherwise may not have)?" Like I said, not typical in my general community but invites are also not phrased like that.

amother

Mintcream

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 12:39 pm

Yup its weird and not okay. I know that where my family lives there's someone who is pretty socially off who apparently goes to every Kiddush, Bris, Vort exc. My family made a family Shabbos and rented out the Simcha hall of a Shul since KAH we are a lot of people. This person asked my family member if she could join us (BH she asked!) and my family member responded firmly that it was a private family event.

I got married in my small hometown and not a lot of my friends were around (though BH I had 5 or 6 close friends that made it there). One girl who was a current student at my very small high school (who had not been in school at the same time as me) said that she was going to tell the girls in school to come to the dancing. I don't remember if I made it clear to her that I wasn't interested in that, but honestly I wasn't. Maybe if it was my former Bnos girls or people that I actually had Shaychus to, but I didn't need high school girls to make my wedding Leibidik, I am not a ra-ra type of person and I had plenty of people that I needed and wanted to dance with.

Cheiny

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 3:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what goes on in someone's mind when they attend an event (a meal) with food being served, sit down to eat, and were not invited?

I was at a siyum seuda recently (during the 9 days). It was a men's event, and the wife invited me to be there to help and just to keep her company - I was the only women there other than the daughters. The other men were invited to make a minyan - this was not a simcha per say, it was made that night for a very specific reason and while it was fleishigs, it was very simple to be yotzei a seudas mitzvah (think - ground beef, not steak or chicken). She made enough food for the people who she invited, and I brought dishes as well. I saw the text her husband sent people, it said specifically that the invitation was for the husband and sons over bar mitzvah when applicable. She was shocked and panicked when she saw the men keep coming in. This was a very private thing in their home - and they kept coming in. My own son who was invited to make the minyan actually left because he was told to give up his chair to an adult who was not invited.

So one of the men's wives walks in, we thought just to say hi. So the hostess commented to her and to me "oh gosh, I don't think I have enough food for all of these people, why are they coming?". And the women not only stayed to eat, she called her other daughters to come as well, and her little kids.

There was not enough food at ALL. She had to change how she was serving the food to make sure everyone got a bit.

But this post is not just about this one event.

I see this happen all the time. It happens to me as well. People bring friends to events that are clearly invitation only. We have one friend who does it every time, so we know it's going to happen and expect if of them, but so many others also come without being invited.

These events are CLEARLY invitation only.

So please explain to me, if you are one of the people who joins in an event that's men only, or if you were invited and you bring a friend along (or a parent, or an adult child, or a teen, etc). WHY?

That’s horrible, and so lacking in mentshlichkeit and common decency. I don’t know how people have no shame…

Cheiny

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 3:26 pm

amother Maple wrote:

Idk, in my community, more people just enhance the simcha. Whenever I see these posts about non Jewish weddings or events where every last person is agonized over whether to invite them or not I roll my eyes.
In my neighborhood, if I make a siyum or a sheva brachos, neighbors will most likely show up. It’s beautiful!! It enhances the simcha!!!
They know they weren’t invited for the meal, so they usually sit and eat from the sweet table or leftovers or a meat board or something.
If no one else showed up I’d feel sad honestly

That’s very different than what OP is describing.

Cheiny

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 3:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

So clearly though this is not what I was referring to in this instance. The event I am referring to was not really a simcha, and the extra people who came not only ate, but made my son get up to give his seat to an uninvited adult.

But as for a true simcha, I recently made a bar mitzvah and was shocked that people came to the seuda who were not invited (children of invited adults when I specifically told them each via text that it's only kids above 13 due to budget), and also some women brought friends and they all sat to eat.

How is it enhancing a simcha if by you showing up, you are causing stress to the hostess?

If it's the norm where you live, then the hostess expects extra people and makes enough food for them. If not, then not. and ESPECIALLY if not only is it not the norm, but if the hosts are the kinds of people who have a real financial hardship, or just budget a certain amount, and have to limit guests?

When we made brissim for our sons, we could not afford to feed everyman who wants to have a nice breakfast and pack a bagel also for his wife and also for lunch at the office, so we made brissim very small and very private. We paid for all of it ourselves (no parents helping), and did not even have lox or cheese out, just bagels and cream cheese and juice.

I know I am not alone in this. I know I am far from the only person who can not go into debt to make a simcha.

But again, I'm asking what goes into someone's mind when they show up, eat, and call their kids to come as well?

You’re right on all. I can’t imagine how embarrassed and bad the hostess was made to feel when she realized she didn’t have enough food because of all the uninvited guests.

It’s just horrible and selfish on those people’s part.

amother

Hosta

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 7:51 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

BINGO.

If you find yourself constantly aggravated by a certain behavior which appears to be a recurring theme in your community, you’re the one driving the wrong way. Get over it or move.