Feel guilty for giving melatonin

amother

Almond

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 11:53 am

When you are doing bedtime routine think honestly to yourself is the environment conducive to sleep? Am I on my phone for hours when the kids come home from school? Are my kids having lots of screen time or are they unwinding naturally with some parental attention. If bathtime is done right it shouldn’t wire up kids at all. Is their bedroom clean and comfortable? Are the lights dim in the house an hour prior to bedtime. Kids going to sleep at night at 9-10 are going to have a much more difficult day in school then a child who goes to bed at 7. Sleep is really important for kids and a good bedtime routine can do wonders for kids. I struggle myself in lots of areas of parenting so don’t take this in the wrong way. A bit of honesty and self reflection can go a long way in mothering. And I personally am learning a lot along the way as I go along the journey of parenting.

Congresswoman

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:12 pm

I don’t justify giving melatonin to kids.

(Now you can start yelling about all diff kids with special circumstances but I’m referring to the average regular child who is difficult at bedtime as many in my circles admit giving it to)

Kids are not objects that need to run according to your preferences.
Sometimes a child is less tired, more rowdy, harder to manage and that’s part of growing stages.

Most of us grew up with various sleep stages and our parents didn’t just cop out and ‘medicate’ us so they could get their quiet time.

I find parents often are not willing to do the work.

(I feel the same with parents who wake their babies in middle of naps bc they need their baby to be on a specific schedule...)

amother

Violet

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:19 pm

amother [ Almond ] wrote:

I personally don't give melatonin. But your post makes obvious that you either don't have more than 3 kids, or don't have an age spread with tweens, preschoolers, toddlers, baby all going through the evening together (and a working mother).

amother

Mauve

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:30 pm

Almond, I would love your insight on how to help my toddler fall asleep better:

Around 4:15 I come flying through the door with kids. Toddler gets a snack while I prepare dinner and stick it in the oven. Then playtime- generally arts and crafts or imaginative play.
Around 5:15, I leave her playing to feed baby dinner in the dining room. 5:30, we return to the playroom where baby has her bedtime bottle. Then we head upstairs. We ask Rock in the chair a bit, put baby in crib to fall asleep, toddler and I go back downstairs where she gets dinner. Then bath time where we talk about her day while I wash her . After her bath she begins running around wildly. I catch her, put on pjs, bring her to bed. 2 books, hamalach and white noise.

amother

Almond

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:39 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

It sounds like you are doing an amazing job! It’s so nice that you do snack and then crafts! That sounds great. I’m not there so it’s hard to pinpoint exactly but you can try a short massage after bathtime. I just take some lotion and massage my preschoolers and toddler, baby for a bit. This should help regulate them. Also if you go straight from the bath into the dim bed room to read stories it also helps. I’m assuming this is all at an optimal sleep time as it sounded like your hitting 6:30 -7 from the schedule you described. If this is hitting 8 it could be you lost the optimal sleep window for the toddler. Also does your toddler nap? If they take a late nap that can change everything. A bedtime for 6:30-7 works grt for my ( older) toddler that doesn’t nap. Sometimes white noise machines are too loud and are detrimental to sleeping so you can adjust the volume and make it lower to get the optimal effects. It sounds like your doing great though!

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:41 pm

Basically, in North America, melatonin is unregulated and the pill can have the content of between 18% and 475% of what’s on the label, so whoever said as long as the dose is right is wrong. There is literally no way to know how much is in each pill.

The half life of the hormones melatonin in pill form is around a half hour. It’s not a sleeping pill. It’s meant to help being on sleep when the pineal gland produces it in our bodies. It’s exogenous use is most effective in helping with jet lag but here’s wfsts even more helpful.

Exposure to bright light and screens.

If you went camping outside for a week, your kids circadian rhythms would change sbd you’d find them going to bed at sunset or just after and waking up at sunrise.

All societies that use electric light are messing with circadian rhythms.

So, if you want bedtime to go better, then lowering the light exposure earlier than bed time is the best way to do it. It helps natural melatonin to be produced and over time, the kids adjust to a new, earlier bed time. They might also get up earlier, unless you have blackout curtains.

The good news is that there’s actually not much evidence that melatonin is toxic, even in large doses. It’s used therapeutically in some medical treatments. It IS a hormone and there is some evidence that in insulin resistant people it can increase insulin resistance, and of course it’s a hormone, which is why it is regulated in many other places. You probably should be careful with it and try other means to get them down better.

In any case, I do t think your odds of hurting your kids is very high.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:51 pm

amother [ Almond ] wrote:

We’ve actually tried massage, and it helped some days, except she then broke out in a rash from every cream or lotion we tried, and we tried a lot 🤦‍♀️. She goes straight from bath into her room with just a shabbos lamp on, and goes wild. This is all around 6:30/7, with an hour and a half nap during the day. We added in the white noise to help her sleep through the night- def helped on that count.

Really the only thing that solved the problem despite doing everything else right, is 1mg of melatonin a night (except on the days she gets bendryl for her allergic cough, but clearly melatonin is better for her. )

amother

Almond

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:56 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

It sounds like you are doing all you could!
That’s tough that all lotions cause a rash.
It sounds like the timing is right. The issue is probably the nap. How old is she and what time is the nap? If the nap ends later then 1 then she will be wired by then and it could be the optimal sleep window is later then 6:30- 7. I’m not so good with targeting sleep windows so you might want to reach out to a more proficient sleep expert:) If she is 3 and up it might be worth dropping her nap. Or keeping the nap but putting her to bed later. Whichever you find enables her to have a happier and more productive day. Good luck!

amother

Mauve

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 12:58 pm

amother [ Almond ] wrote:

Unfortunately nap time is scheduled by school, but even on days she doesn't nap, bedtime is bad unless we use melatonin.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 1:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I give my kids melatonin many times, because they have a hard time falling asleep and it's hard to do bedtime for hours and hours. But I feel guilty about it because I dont know if it's the right thing. I dont know of any proven side effects.

Sometimes the mother's mental health is more important...

Should I be feeling guilty?

LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. If you feel guilty it may be because you know that it is just covering a symptom and not actually benefitting your child. Tune in, you know the answer to your question.

amother

Almond

Fri, Jan 21 2022, 1:09 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Unfortunately nap time is scheduled by school, but even on days she doesn't nap, bedtime is bad unless we use melatonin.

It sounds like the nap is the issue. Once you have some days with a nap and some days not it’s hard for kind to wind down as their routine is off. It’s so important to have the same routine daily for good sleep hygiene. ( obviously flexibility with a simcha or YT is totally fine) but the general day to day routine creates a structure and really helps the kids fall asleep right away. So there is no surprise that the twice weekly or whatever it is that she doesn’t nap will have the same issue as the days she is napping. The good news is this is hopefully a short term problem as she will outgrow her nap and she will hopefully have an easier time falling asleep.

As an aside if she is 3 and waking up at 2:30 I
wouldn’t be giving her melatonin to put her to bed at 6:30 as that’s way too fast to go back to sleep. That’s unnatural timing. Nothing to do with the unknown aspect of melatonin and it’s effects but in my mind that feels like “drugging” a kid to sleep when they are totally not ready.
Regardless good luck figuring this out!

FranticFrummie

Sat, Jan 22 2022, 12:39 pm

I am personally offended by terms like "lazy parenting" and "cop out". Every kid is different, every parent is different.

If your doctor is on board, and you have tried everything else you can think of, I don't think that's bad parenting. Melatonin is a last ditch effort for just about everyone I know.

How can anyone assume that every parent is lazy? I like to think that the majority of parents have tried every trick in the book, sat in a dark room for hours, tried all the herbal teas, and have been frustrated to the point of tears. When your child comes home with notes from school that say "Dina keeps falling asleep in class" and you feel horrible about it. When your child is cranky and picks fights with siblings all day, and tantrums for hours out of sheer exhaustion.

A note about bath time. DD has always loved the water. LOVED it, and still does. A very sleepy little girl will come to life in the bath, and happily play until the water is ice cold and her lips are blue, if I let her. Then she'll be wide awake for hours afterwards, even if I get her out while the water is still warm. (If the water is warm when I get her out, she'll scream that she's not done yet, because the water isn't cold.)

I had to get her into the tub after school, right after her snack. That way she had a long time to wind down before bedtime. She'd eat dinner in her pajamas, we'd read books, she could play quietly, and then it would be time for snuggles, tucking in, and Shema.

A half an hour, an hour, an hour and a half later, she'd be crying "I'm so tired, I want to sleep!" What do you say to that? She's begging for bedtime rest, she's not being defiant.

We started trying melatonin when she was almost 6, and realized that we really should have been doing this when she turned 4, as that's when the trouble started. We had SO many power struggles over it. It was ruining my relationship with her, and vice versa.

When bedtime was coming, DD would say to me "Mama, I think it's time for my pill." Then we'd do our bedtime routine, I'd tuck her in, and she'd be asleep within 5 minutes. She'd wake up on time for school, she was in a better mood, and her grades improved.

(I've heard that extensive melatonin use "may" cause kids to be short. I don't know if this is conclusive or not. DD is 5 feet tall, but her birth mom is only 5'3", so it may not be related. In any case, if you asked DD if she'd rather be tall, but not sleep well, she would tell you that she'd much rather be short, and have had the melatonin when she needed it."

amother

Trillium

Sat, Jan 22 2022, 2:22 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I am personally offended by terms like "lazy parenting" and "cop out". Every kid is different, every parent is different.

If your doctor is on board, and you have tried everything else you can think of, I don't think that's bad parenting. Melatonin is a last ditch effort for just about everyone I know.

How can anyone assume that every parent is lazy? I like to think that the majority of parents have tried every trick in the book, sat in a dark room for hours, tried all the herbal teas, and have been frustrated to the point of tears. When your child comes home with notes from school that say "Dina keeps falling asleep in class" and you feel horrible about it. When your child is cranky and picks fights with siblings all day, and tantrums for hours out of sheer exhaustion.

A note about bath time. DD has always loved the water. LOVED it, and still does. A very sleepy little girl will come to life in the bath, and happily play until the water is ice cold and her lips are blue, if I let her. Then she'll be wide awake for hours afterwards, even if I get her out while the water is still warm. (If the water is warm when I get her out, she'll scream that she's not done yet, because the water isn't cold.)

I had to get her into the tub after school, right after her snack. That way she had a long time to wind down before bedtime. She'd eat dinner in her pajamas, we'd read books, she could play quietly, and then it would be time for snuggles, tucking in, and Shema.

A half an hour, an hour, an hour and a half later, she'd be crying "I'm so tired, I want to sleep!" What do you say to that? She's begging for bedtime rest, she's not being defiant.

We started trying melatonin when she was almost 6, and realized that we really should have been doing this when she turned 4, as that's when the trouble started. We had SO many power struggles over it. It was ruining my relationship with her, and vice versa.

When bedtime was coming, DD would say to me "Mama, I think it's time for my pill." Then we'd do our bedtime routine, I'd tuck her in, and she'd be asleep within 5 minutes. She'd wake up on time for school, she was in a better mood, and her grades improved.

(I've heard that extensive melatonin use "may" cause kids to be short. I don't know if this is conclusive or not. DD is 5 feet tall, but her birth mom is only 5'3", so it may not be related. In any case, if you asked DD if she'd rather be tall, but not sleep well, she would tell you that she'd much rather be short, and have had the melatonin when she needed it."

I thought if anything that Melatonin may increase height by raising HGH levels? 🤔

amother

Trillium

Sat, Jan 22 2022, 2:23 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I am personally offended by terms like "lazy parenting" and "cop out". Every kid is different, every parent is different.

If your doctor is on board, and you have tried everything else you can think of, I don't think that's bad parenting. Melatonin is a last ditch effort for just about everyone I know.

How can anyone assume that every parent is lazy? I like to think that the majority of parents have tried every trick in the book, sat in a dark room for hours, tried all the herbal teas, and have been frustrated to the point of tears. When your child comes home with notes from school that say "Dina keeps falling asleep in class" and you feel horrible about it. When your child is cranky and picks fights with siblings all day, and tantrums for hours out of sheer exhaustion.

A note about bath time. DD has always loved the water. LOVED it, and still does. A very sleepy little girl will come to life in the bath, and happily play until the water is ice cold and her lips are blue, if I let her. Then she'll be wide awake for hours afterwards, even if I get her out while the water is still warm. (If the water is warm when I get her out, she'll scream that she's not done yet, because the water isn't cold.)

I had to get her into the tub after school, right after her snack. That way she had a long time to wind down before bedtime. She'd eat dinner in her pajamas, we'd read books, she could play quietly, and then it would be time for snuggles, tucking in, and Shema.

A half an hour, an hour, an hour and a half later, she'd be crying "I'm so tired, I want to sleep!" What do you say to that? She's begging for bedtime rest, she's not being defiant.

We started trying melatonin when she was almost 6, and realized that we really should have been doing this when she turned 4, as that's when the trouble started. We had SO many power struggles over it. It was ruining my relationship with her, and vice versa.

When bedtime was coming, DD would say to me "Mama, I think it's time for my pill." Then we'd do our bedtime routine, I'd tuck her in, and she'd be asleep within 5 minutes. She'd wake up on time for school, she was in a better mood, and her grades improved.

(I've heard that extensive melatonin use "may" cause kids to be short. I don't know if this is conclusive or not. DD is 5 feet tall, but her birth mom is only 5'3", so it may not be related. In any case, if you asked DD if she'd rather be tall, but not sleep well, she would tell you that she'd much rather be short, and have had the melatonin when she needed it."

Duplicate

amother

Trillium

Sat, Jan 22 2022, 2:31 pm

amother [ Almond ] wrote:

My post wasn’t referring to autistic children. I don’t have experience in that regard and it’s not my place to be giving advice for something I don’t know much about. I’m sure you are doing the best you can. Much nachas from him!

But the point is, the people I know who use melatonin do it because they have children either on the spectrum or with another special need. Many are experienced parents with excellent night-time routines with their other children. If a parent is using it, it is almost certainly because nothing else has worked.