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-> In the News
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IMHopinion
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:53 pm
shoshanim999 wrote: | Your not alarmed that 14% of the population is committing 51% of the murders? |
I wish I can like this more than once.
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shoshanim999
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:53 pm
Maya wrote: | The way I see it, race relations is an awareness of how white people see black, and vice versa, and how those perceptions make us act towards each other, on both sides. This has nothing to do with blame, but is simply an education of why people do what they do with regards to race. It is not condoning or condemning, it is just about being made aware, which is always the first step to reform. |
But our perceptions are based on how we observe people act and behave. You obviously aren't racist but you wouldn't dare walk at night in many black neighborhoods because you would be afraid that the black people in the area would steal your money, rape and kill you. Am I wrong? Would you walk alone at night in Ferguson Missouri?
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Maya
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:54 pm
BasMelech120 wrote: | I will take the responsibility to educate myself on matters that are real, important, or matters that are actually harmful or threatening to people. Black people blaming white people for their problems is simply a lazy response to their own issues. There is not a single freedom that Black people do not have today. Not a SINGLE one.
That is why I would love to hear from you about the real white-on-black issues facing the black communities. Once you have pointed them out and made the issue clear, I'd love to have a read at the relevant topics. But just screaming 'racism' will not get anyone anywhere. You have to be able to actually point it out. |
Forgive me for not having the time to write pages and pages of explanations.
If you don't care about the issue and just prefer to spout whatever you want, be my guest. It was important to me to be educated on the topic, so I did that. It doesn't matter to me what you want to do.
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shoshanim999
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:59 pm
Maya wrote: | Forgive me for not having the time to write pages and pages of explanations.
If you don't care about the issue and just prefer to spout whatever you want, be my guest. It was important to me to be educated on the topic, so I did that. It doesn't matter to me what you want to do. |
And your response is typical of why its impossible to have a discussion with somebody on the left. Their answers are never based on data or statistics, or in your case your participating in the comments here but your simply saying that you've read up on this topic, and the facts are on your side but your gonna keep it a secret as to why. That's useful.
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BasMelech120
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:00 pm
Maya wrote: | Forgive me for not having the time to write pages and pages of explanations.
If you don't care about the issue and just prefer to spout whatever you want, be my guest. It was important to me to be educated on the topic, so I did that. It doesn't matter to me what you want to do. |
Again, I am not asking for pages and pages of explanations. If the issues were so real, you would be able to quickly draw up a list of bullet points and present them to me so I can research them further. For example, let me demonstrate how I would do this when discussing the issues within black communities today:
* High levels of incarceration among both men and women
* High levels of gang inclusion at younger ages
* Higher levels of school dropout
* Higher numbers of children (both male and female) growing up without a father in the home
* High numbers of black-on-black homicides
* Higher numbers of arrest/incarceration specifically related to illegal substances
See? Quick and easy. This post took me maybe 4 minutes to compose, and I think it shows that I may not be as uneducated as you'd like to believe I am. Can you come up with an actual list of 'racist' white-on-black issues?
(Editing to let you know that if you needed statistics on any of those items, I'd be able to provide them to you without a problem.)
Last edited by BasMelech120 on Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gp2.0
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:00 pm
Every one of you who thinks it's logical to discuss murder statistics or crime statistics perpetrated by black people is part of the problem.
Again.
One more time.
Philando didn't kill anyone.
Alton didn't kill anyone.
The police officers who were picked off one by one didn't kill anyone.
They didn't deserve to die.
I know you're going to keep spouting random statistics, but please, just once, before you cite more random factoids, acknowledge this:
They. Were. Murdered. And. They. Didn't. Deserve. To. Die.
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gold21
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:01 pm
ohmygosh wrote: | The fact is, none of us know what occured in that situation and why the cop used his gun. We don't have the full audio/video. But I, for one, am sick and tired of everyone assuming it's due to race before knowing all the facts. I am sick of the black community rising up and rioting without knowing what happened. They take one fact -white officer shot black guy- and make the assumption that it was due to race. A white cop nowadays would have to be very stupid to shoot a black guy 'just because'. I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that.
Let the facts play out. Not everything is about race. |
Its true, we dont know the facts yet, we dont know the full story.
To assume is to risk jumping to false conclusions.
So, why assume (im talking to those of you assuming its a racial issue)
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shoshanim999
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:10 pm
gp2.0 wrote: | Every one of you who thinks it's logical to discuss murder statistics or crime statistics perpetrated by black people is part of the problem.
Again.
One more time.
Philando didn't kill anyone.
Alton didn't kill anyone.
The police officers who were picked off one by one didn't kill anyone.
They didn't deserve to die.
I know you're going to keep spouting random statistics, but please, just once, before you cite more random factoids, acknowledge this:
They. Were. Murdered. And. They. Didn't. Deserve. To. Die. |
A.G.R.E.E.D.
but why is the black community making such a hoopla as if they care about each other when there are literally 40 black people slaughtered by other blacks for each time a cop kills a black person? 2 wrongs dont make a right but it seems like this is more anti cop than standing up for each other.
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Maya
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:11 pm
BasMelech120 wrote: | Again, I am not asking for pages and pages of explanations. If the issues were so real, you would be able to quickly draw up a list of bullet points and present them to me so I can research them further. For example, let me demonstrate how I would do this when discussing the issues within black communities today:
* High levels of incarceration among both men and women
* High levels of gang inclusion at younger ages
* Higher levels of school dropout
* Higher numbers of children (both male and female) growing up without a father in the home
* High numbers of black-on-black homicides
* Higher numbers of arrest/incarceration specifically related to illegal substances
See? Quick and easy. This post took me maybe 4 minutes to compose, and I think it shows that I may not be as uneducated as you'd like to believe I am. Can you come up with an actual list of 'racist' white-on-black issues?
(Editing to let you know that if you needed statistics on any of those items, I'd be able to provide them to you without a problem.) |
Did you know that predominantly black school districts receive less funding than predominantly white school districts, thereby limiting the badly needed resources that would help to prevent a lot of the problems you mentioned in your post? Do you think this is the fault of the poor black people in the neighborhoods?
Start there.
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IMHopinion
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:11 pm
gp2.0 wrote: | Every one of you who thinks it's logical to discuss murder statistics or crime statistics perpetrated by black people is part of the problem.
Again.
One more time.
Philando didn't kill anyone.
Alton didn't kill anyone.
The police officers who were picked off one by one didn't kill anyone.
They didn't deserve to die.
I know you're going to keep spouting random statistics, but please, just once, before you cite more random factoids, acknowledge this:
They. Were. Murdered. And. They. Didn't. Deserve. To. Die. |
Nobody is justifying their killings. They may have been innocent, or not. We don't have facts yet.
The statistics only prove to you the reason why there is so called racism against blacks.
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marina
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:14 pm
shoshanim999 wrote: | A.G.R.E.E.D.
but why is the black community making such a hoopla as if they care about each other when there are literally 40 black people slaughtered by other blacks for each time a cop kills a black person? 2 wrongs dont make a right but it seems like this is more anti cop than standing up for each other. |
I dk why this is complicated. Even a little complicated.
Police are agents of the government. It is much more disturbing when a government slaughters its citizens than when they harm each other.l
Especially when race is a factor. It's the difference btw some jerk beating you up bc you're a Jew and the government harming Jews as a practice.
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Maya
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:17 pm
gp2.0 wrote: | .."
I don't know how anyone can watch that video without bawling. |
Why waste tears on black people? They're anyway killing each other.
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gold21
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:23 pm
marina wrote: | I dk why this is complicated. Even a little complicated.
Police are agents of the government. It is much more disturbing when a government slaughters its citizens than when they harm each other.
Especially when race is a factor. It's the difference btw some jerk beating you up bc you're a Jew and the government harming Jews as a practice. |
What do u think the reaction would have been if the police officer was black?
I wonder if the Black Lives Matter campaign would become a non-issue if we only had more black people on the force. Then, if it were a case of black cop shooting black guy, race would be taken out of the equation, and we could focus on real solutions (police brutality, directed at any race or nationality; better training and equipment for police officers- guns should only be used as an absolute last resort, and even then, shoot to injure, not to kill, etc....)
A black female cop was incredibly nasty to me once. For a second I thought "anti semite" and then I corrected the thought in my head and realized "nah, shes just in a bad mood and taking advantage of her position- its not a racial issue"
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BasMelech120
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:37 pm
Maya wrote: | Did you know that predominantly black school districts receive less funding than predominantly white school districts, thereby limiting the badly needed resources that would help to prevent a lot of the problems you mentioned in your post? Do you think this is the fault of the poor black people in the neighborhoods?
Start there. |
Ok, thank you for bringing up this issue!
It is indeed true that poorer schools get less funding from the Govt., which means that those schools have to end up spending less money per student than schools in wealthier neighborhoods. Those poor schools are often in predominantly black neighborhoods, which means that the black students end up going to schools that cannot afford to spend as much on them as on other students in more affluent communities.
Now, the National Center for Education statistics has released a graph that shows the following: between 1970 and 2010, federal funding for schools across the board have increased from $40,000 - $150,000. Throughout that time, test scores were followed - and they did not improve with the increase of funding. This proves that there is no correlation between the amount of money given to a school and its effect on students' academic success. In fact, even in schools with a large mixed student body, the black students still held down a lower GPA when compared to white students. In one study investigating this, students said that excelling at school was considered 'acting white' and they did not want to hear that from their friends. So there...
With these facts, is this issue possibly more cultural than 'racist' or a white-on-black issue? Is it possible that this has to do more with the lack of parental involvement in school, the lack of personal responsibility in those communities? In order to succeed, one has to to what it takes to succeed. This has nothing to with racism once the facts are clearly demonstrated.
There is obviously a lot more data out there to explain the root of this phenomenon as a personal responsibility issue and not a racism issue. I have linked the references I used when composing this post, and they will provide more info on this matter.
References:
http://reason.com/archives/201.....-race
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/.....=true
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shoshanim999
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:46 pm
marina wrote: | I dk why this is complicated. Even a little complicated.
Police are agents of the government. It is much more disturbing when a government slaughters its citizens than when they harm each other.l
Especially when race is a factor. It's the difference btw some jerk beating you up bc you're a Jew and the government harming Jews as a practice. |
I agree with you. I'm just not believing this fake outrage with these protests that black people care about each other. It's baloney. To many other problems that they cant blame white people that they are silent about.
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marina
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:50 pm
BasMelech120 wrote: | Ok, thank you for bringing up this issue!
It is indeed true that poorer schools get less funding from the Govt., which means that those schools have to end up spending less money per student than schools in wealthier neighborhoods. Those poor schools are often in predominantly black neighborhoods, which means that the black students end up going to schools that cannot afford to spend as much on them as on other students in more affluent communities.
Now, the National Center for Education statistics has released a graph that shows the following: between 1970 and 2010, federal funding for schools across the board have increased from $40,000 - $150,000. Throughout that time, test scores were followed - and they did not improve with the increase of funding. This proves that there is no correlation between the amount of money given to a school and its effect on students' academic success. In fact, even in schools with a large mixed student body, the black students still held down a lower GPA when compared to white students. In one study investigating this, students said that excelling at school was considered 'acting white' and they did not want to hear that from their friends. So there...
With these facts, is this issue possibly more cultural than 'racist' or a white-on-black issue? Is it possible that this has to do more with the lack of parental involvement in school, the lack of personal responsibility in those communities? In order to succeed, one has to to what it takes to succeed. This has nothing to with racism once the facts are clearly demonstrated.
There is obviously a lot more data out there to explain the root of this phenomenon as a personal responsibility issue and not a racism issue. I have linked the references I used when composing this post, and they will provide more info on this matter.
References:
http://reason.com/archives/201.....-race
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/.....=true |
Your analysis of test score data over the last 50 years is very simplistic and does not take into account many many other factors.
Just off the top of my head: in the 70s there was no special Ed and if you weren't average, you ended up in the basement and your scores didn't count. Now everyone's scores count bc we value education for everyone. So of course scores that take into account the entire range of abilities will be lower than those just counting the average or above average kids.
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treestump
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:53 pm
shoshanim999 wrote: | I agree with you. I'm just not believing this fake outrage with these protests that black people care about each other. It's baloney. To many other problems that they cant blame white people that they are silent about. |
Amazing how you can extrapolate from some sick murderers and violent people who are NOT majority of an entire race by any means, that no blacks care for each other.
Just amazing.
I don't think this thread should be public. I don't think it should be on Imamother at all, but whatever.
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marina
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 7:58 pm
BasMelech120 wrote: | Ok, thank you for bringing up this issue!
It is indeed true that poorer schools get less funding from the Govt., which means that those schools have to end up spending less money per student than schools in wealthier neighborhoods. Those poor schools are often in predominantly black neighborhoods, which means that the black students end up going to schools that cannot afford to spend as much on them as on other students in more affluent communities.
Now, the National Center for Education statistics has released a graph that shows the following: between 1970 and 2010, federal funding for schools across the board have increased from $40,000 - $150,000. Throughout that time, test scores were followed - and they did not improve with the increase of funding. This proves that there is no correlation between the amount of money given to a school and its effect on students' academic success. In fact, even in schools with a large mixed student body, the black students still held down a lower GPA when compared to white students. In one study investigating this, students said that excelling at school was considered 'acting white' and they did not want to hear that from their friends. So there...
With these facts, is this issue possibly more cultural than 'racist' or a white-on-black issue? Is it possible that this has to do more with the lack of parental involvement in school, the lack of personal responsibility in those communities? In order to succeed, one has to to what it takes to succeed. This has nothing to with racism once the facts are clearly demonstrated.
There is obviously a lot more data out there to explain the root of this phenomenon as a personal responsibility issue and not a racism issue. I have linked the references I used when composing this post, and they will provide more info on this matter.
References:
http://reason.com/archives/201.....-race
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/.....=true |
And in other news your links are not based on the data itself, but rather some biased interpretation of the data NAEP offers. Here's the actual data and it does show improved performance for most groups:
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsrepo.....6.pdf
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marina
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:03 pm
shoshanim999 wrote: | I agree with you. I'm just not believing this fake outrage with these protests that black people care about each other. It's baloney. To many other problems that they cant blame white people that they are silent about. |
Yeah. When I hear about anti-Semitism, I think the same thing! They can't fool me those Jews! Their fake outrage doesn't trick me into thinking that they care about each other! Look at all the molesters in their community and the teachers who actually hit their kids! And the schools that don't even teach BASIC math and English! Entire illiterate communities! They don't care about each other and they should stop their stupid crying about Anti semitism. It's baloney!!
Too many problems that they can't blame the Gentiles for that they are silent about!
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marina
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Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:09 pm
gold21 wrote: | What do u think the reaction would have been if the police officer was black?
I wonder if the Black Lives Matter campaign would become a non-issue if we only had more black people on the force. Then, if it were a case of black cop shooting black guy, race would be taken out of the equation, and we could focus on real solutions (police brutality, directed at any race or nationality; better training and equipment for police officers- guns should only be used as an absolute last resort, and even then, shoot to injure, not to kill, etc....)
A black female cop was incredibly nasty to me once. For a second I thought "anti semite" and then I corrected the thought in my head and realized "nah, shes just in a bad mood and taking advantage of her position- its not a racial issue" |
Police brutality is always a serious problem that implicates important constitutional questions. It's even worse when the brutality reflects racial bias.
When a cop is more likely to kill someone he pulled over when the citizen is black, that's racial bias. Deadly racial bias.
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