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-> Parenting our children
-> School age children
Isher
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 Tue, Apr 13 2010, 11:05 pm
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For the summer season I ended up getting my 8 year old a size bigger than her 10 year old sister. She needed the bigger size for the waistline. You need to make sure that all your kids feel comfortable with what they're wearing and that they look decent.
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mamommommy
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Tue, Apr 13 2010, 11:41 pm
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | | 6coop wrote: | I have two boys who are 3 1/2 years apart. My older son is very short, and my younger one is on the taller side of average. They are usually one size apart which worked out great because as soon as my older son was finished with his clothes, it would go right to my younger son. It's now at a stage where my younger son needs to move up a size, but those things are still fitting my older one. A few problems:
1. I don't want to spend extra money to buy a double wardrobe in one size.
2. I don't want my older son to be any more self-conscious than he already is about his height, by having to wear the same size as his younger brother.
3. The next size up is still too big for my older son and I don't want him to have to wear things that are flopping off of him (although that might not bother him, it just doesn't look good).
I'm not sure what to do to maintain a balance.
Ideas? | I really think you have put to much emphasis on size and self esteem. I am the oldest of 7 and the shortest. It didn't bother me growing up nor now. When my sibling remarked about my shortness growing up, I shot back a comment about their freakish largeness.
It was all in good fun, My younger brothers call me their little big sister. Your son needs to learn sometime that there will always be someone who is taller/smarter/better looking/ more personable. Its better if he learns it now. If you dwell on your height, others will too. You need to make up for it in other ways, like personality and oodles of self comfort. People tell me all the time when I say I'm only X height, that they always see me as much taller, because of my disposition ect.
I also have two boys that wear the same size....they do not even realize it. At one point the younger one had bigger feet, now its the older that has a slight advantage, It goes back and forth. I label clothing labels with the first name initial, so they do not end up sharing clothes. The school has a dress code, but I still manage to get them things that are different. Neither one has a complex.
Also by always letting son2 have hand me downs, its not great for his self esteem either.While is great to save money when you can, its very important that each child should feel special, and new clothes go a long way to making them feel that way. Don't build your older sons self esteem on the back of the younger one. |
I actually think that it's nice that this mother is trying to be sensitive to her son's insecurities! I also don't think that she was asking for advice on how to help her son get over it, but just for practical suggestions of how to arrange the wardrobes while taking all of the factors into account. Aside form that EVERYONE has insecurities. A lot of the time they are irrational (although it seems perfectly normal to me that a boy might feel insecure about being extremely short), and you can tell yourself over and over how the thing that you're insecure about shouldn't matter, but you'll probably still feel insecure about it anyway. It's even harder for a child to understand that. Why shouldn't this mother care to prevent any more hurt?
I also can't understand how you're equating a child having to wear hand-me-downs with a child who has a serious insecurity. Why do you assume that having to wear hand-me-downs would ruin someone's self-esteem?
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Mommy3.5
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 7:49 am
Actually it is good advice. A child should learn not to dwell on their insecurities, because once you have spent 10-15 years thinking yourself inferior because your short, its hard to come at it any other way, and it can cause permanent damage.
If you boost his self confidence, then he will act more self assured, and self assured people don't usually get bullied. Bullies pick on weak and easy targets. You have to make yourself strong and confident if you want the bulling to stop/
Tell him that many boys shoot up after their bar mitzvah. My cousin, who is by far the tallest person in my extended family at over 6'2", barely came up to his mothers shoulder , with the hat at his Bar mitzva, and my aunt is all of 5'.
My husband is also quite short, and our kids have no chance at significant height between their parents, their friends are head and shoulders above them, but they are not bullied, because they don't care about their height, and they can hold their own even with kids who are way bigger.
Instilling real confidence in your son will go further then not buying the younger one the size he needs. Personally I would not cut out clothing tags, because it will make the future of determining sizes harder. Especially if they go through 3-4 years of being the same size.
My advice is to get them each a laundry bag, let them put all their stuff in their own bag, wash the bag along with their clothes, and hand all their stuff back in the laundry bag. let them fold it/sort if from the bag.
BTW, when I said that hand me downs are bad for self esteem, I did not mean I never hand things down, I meant that every kid should get at least a few new things that were purchased just for them.
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6coop
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 8:00 am
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | Actually it is good advice. A child should learn not to dwell on their insecurities, because once you have spent 10-15 years thinking yourself inferior because your short, its hard to come at it any other way, and it can cause permanent damage.
If you boost his self confidence, then he will act more self assured, and self assured people don't usually get bullied. Bullies pick on weak and easy targets. You have to make yourself strong and confident if you want the bulling to stop/
Tell him that many boys shoot up after their bar mitzvah. My cousin, who is by far the tallest person in my extended family at over 6'2", barely came up to his mothers shoulder , with the hat at his Bar mitzva, and my aunt is all of 5'.
My husband is also quite short, and our kids have no chance at significant height between their parents, their friends are head and shoulders above them, but they are not bullied, because they don't care about their height, and they can hold their own even with kids who are way bigger.
Instilling real confidence in your son will go further then not buying the younger one the size he needs. Personally I would not cut out clothing tags, because it will make the future of determining sizes harder. Especially if they go through 3-4 years of being the same size.
My advice is to get them each a laundry bag, let them put all their stuff in their own bag, wash the bag along with their clothes, and hand all their stuff back in the laundry bag. let them fold it/sort if from the bag.
BTW, when I said that hand me downs are bad for self esteem, I did not mean I never hand things down, I meant that every kid should get at least a few new things that were purchased just for them. |
What makes you think that I don't know and do everything you're saying? I wasn't asking for tips about boosting his self-esteem.
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mamommommy
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 9:30 am
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | Actually it is good advice. A child should learn not to dwell on their insecurities, because once you have spent 10-15 years thinking yourself inferior because your short, its hard to come at it any other way, and it can cause permanent damage.
If you boost his self confidence, then he will act more self assured, and self assured people don't usually get bullied. Bullies pick on weak and easy targets. You have to make yourself strong and confident if you want the bulling to stop/
Tell him that many boys shoot up after their bar mitzvah. My cousin, who is by far the tallest person in my extended family at over 6'2", barely came up to his mothers shoulder , with the hat at his Bar mitzva, and my aunt is all of 5'.
My husband is also quite short, and our kids have no chance at significant height between their parents, their friends are head and shoulders above them, but they are not bullied, because they don't care about their height, and they can hold their own even with kids who are way bigger.
Instilling real confidence in your son will go further then not buying the younger one the size he needs. Personally I would not cut out clothing tags, because it will make the future of determining sizes harder. Especially if they go through 3-4 years of being the same size.
My advice is to get them each a laundry bag, let them put all their stuff in their own bag, wash the bag along with their clothes, and hand all their stuff back in the laundry bag. let them fold it/sort if from the bag.
BTW, when I said that hand me downs are bad for self esteem, I did not mean I never hand things down, I meant that every kid should get at least a few new things that were purchased just for them. |
You're saying very nice things, but you are assuming that the op is dwelling on the fact that her ds is short instead of being sensitive to the reality of her ds's feelings. I'm not going to repeat what I wrote earlier, but you can try to teach your kids to be and think the way you want them too, but the reality is that they are individuals with their own feelings and you need to be sensitive to them. Plus, no matter how self-assured a kid is, the reality is that boys pick on short kids. They are noticably smaller and physically weaker. Btw, op also said her son is picked-on, not bullied - two different things. (even friends rib and pick on eachother all the time)
Also, how old are your kids? Younger kids don't really notice these things, but once they hit like the 9+ age category when sports become really important, physical limitations are very noticable. How do you know what will happen to them down the road? Kids are often not self-conscious about something until they're picked on for it.
When my dd was in second grade, one of her friends made fun of her for wearing a turtle neck. We always taught my daughter to be self-confident about her turtle necks and that she could compensate for turtle necks in other ways, like with her hair scrunchie, but since that day she has never wanted to wear turtlenecks anymore. ("c'mon ma! no one else wears them!") So you know what...I don't buy her any more turtlenecks.
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Mommy3.5
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 11:37 am
| 6coop wrote: | | Mommy3.5 wrote: | Actually it is good advice. A child should learn not to dwell on their insecurities, because once you have spent 10-15 years thinking yourself inferior because your short, its hard to come at it any other way, and it can cause permanent damage.
If you boost his self confidence, then he will act more self assured, and self assured people don't usually get bullied. Bullies pick on weak and easy targets. You have to make yourself strong and confident if you want the bulling to stop/
Tell him that many boys shoot up after their bar mitzvah. My cousin, who is by far the tallest person in my extended family at over 6'2", barely came up to his mothers shoulder , with the hat at his Bar mitzva, and my aunt is all of 5'.
My husband is also quite short, and our kids have no chance at significant height between their parents, their friends are head and shoulders above them, but they are not bullied, because they don't care about their height, and they can hold their own even with kids who are way bigger.
Instilling real confidence in your son will go further then not buying the younger one the size he needs. Personally I would not cut out clothing tags, because it will make the future of determining sizes harder. Especially if they go through 3-4 years of being the same size.
My advice is to get them each a laundry bag, let them put all their stuff in their own bag, wash the bag along with their clothes, and hand all their stuff back in the laundry bag. let them fold it/sort if from the bag.
BTW, when I said that hand me downs are bad for self esteem, I did not mean I never hand things down, I meant that every kid should get at least a few new things that were purchased just for them. |
What makes you think that I don't know and do everything you're saying? I wasn't asking for tips about boosting his self-esteem. |
I didn't suggest you weren't. I was giving you my first hand experience with the same issue. Something I have dealt with for my whole life, and deal with my own kids. I also did give a practical clothing solution in there. I bolded it above. I am not trying to offend, but when you asked "what should I do my younger son is the same size as the older and I think the older one will be hurt to see the same size for his brother", then in my mind that leads to what I said about self confidence boosting.
While I understand that being sensitive to one child's needs is important, but taking out all the tags from the clothes won't change what he sees with his own eyes, his little brother is as big as he is, and may one day be bigger. trying to play games with tags will not help him, he will know the tags are gone so that he doesn't see his brothers size.
For those who said boys pick on short kids, this has not been my experience. Both with my kids and with their friends who are much smaller then they are. Bullies choose easy and weak targets, you can be short, and not be picked on, it has more to do with how the the bully perceives the kid he is picking on. Tall kids, fat kids, also get bullied, and then there are tall kids and fat kids who are the leaders and never bullied.
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Chayalle
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:33 pm
just because it hasn't been your experience that your short sons are picked on, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does! I just asked my brother (married with 5 kids, was very short as a child) and he said he sufferred all his school years.
For my DD, who as mentioned previously is very very petite, it's not as much a problem of being picked on, as her wanting to look her age. When her bus never came the first day of 5th grade, and she had to be driven and was late, she was mortified when she knocked on the door to her classroom...the Morah asked if she could help her, not dreaming this was one of her students! And of course the whole class giggled....So I go out of my way to pick more mature clothes for her, so she shouldn't look like 7 (her bone age) but closer to 11 1/2 (her actual age).
I can imagine that the OP is also dealing with similar issues, and I commend her for trying to help her son so that he should not develop insecurities from being short. I don't think ignoring the issue is the way to go!
However, OP - we mothers of petite older/same-size-or-even-bigger younger just need to accept the fact that just like Hashem made our family such that we are not managing to save $$ by using hand-me-downs, He will provide the necessary $$ needed for the double clothes!
(BTW I would NEVER give my older DD a hand-me-down from her younger sister. However if they want to swap or share clothes that's their business.)
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Mommy3.5
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:44 pm
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I never said short kids do not get picked on, I just don't think its more prevalent then other kids getting picked because of other outward traits. And I also said that the shortness is not the main issue, Its the perceived weakness of the child being bullied.
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6coop
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:59 pm
Okay, my son is NOT being bullied for being short. He is teased for being short by other kids including his friends. They do things like joke that they can fit him in the garbage can and call him shrimp etc.. Boys also don't want to be on his team for sports because his height obviously gives him a handicap in that area. Otherwise, he is VERY well liked. Boys invite him over all of the time and are otherwise nice to him. He is a very sensitive kid so when other boys are joking, he may be hurt by it and he has developed a complex about being short. I don't feel like I'm responsible for that by not building up his self-esteem enough.
And of course he'll notice that his younger brother is taller than him, I just was trying not to highlight the issue.
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Mommy3.5
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 1:44 pm
| 6coop wrote: | Okay, my son is NOT being bullied for being short. He is teased for being short by other kids including his friends. They do things like joke that they can fit him in the garbage can and call him shrimp etc.. Boys also don't want to be on his team for sports because his height obviously gives him a handicap in that area. Otherwise, he is VERY well liked. Boys invite him over all of the time and are otherwise nice to him. He is a very sensitive kid so when other boys are joking, he may be hurt by it and he has developed a complex about being short. I don't feel like I'm responsible for that by not building up his self-esteem enough.
And of course he'll notice that his younger brother is taller than him, I just was trying not to highlight the issue. |
I'm glad he isn't being bullied. Teasing can also be very hurtful. Sometimes kids don't really see that they are hurting others with their words. I don't see the parent as responsible for teasing, and (as long as your not saying oh your short, and will never be able to get married due to being the height of an ant  ), I do not see how getting complex could ever be your fault.
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doodlesmom
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 2:16 pm
If you want to make the older one feel special hand down his clothes to the younger when, and get him a new wardrobe in the same size.
And before you know it your younger one will be the bigger size, please don't make the mistake of giving his hand me downs to the older one.
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mamommommy
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 4:44 pm
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | | 6coop wrote: | Okay, my son is NOT being bullied for being short. He is teased for being short by other kids including his friends. They do things like joke that they can fit him in the garbage can and call him shrimp etc.. Boys also don't want to be on his team for sports because his height obviously gives him a handicap in that area. Otherwise, he is VERY well liked. Boys invite him over all of the time and are otherwise nice to him. He is a very sensitive kid so when other boys are joking, he may be hurt by it and he has developed a complex about being short. I don't feel like I'm responsible for that by not building up his self-esteem enough.
And of course he'll notice that his younger brother is taller than him, I just was trying not to highlight the issue. |
I'm glad he isn't being bullied. Teasing can also be very hurtful. Sometimes kids don't really see that they are hurting others with their words. I don't see the parent as responsible for teasing, and (as long as your not saying oh your short, and will never be able to get married due to being the height of an ant ), I do not see how getting complex could ever be your fault. |
Mommy3.5 - I hope that you don't think that I'm picking on you, because I'm not trying too, but I'm wondering why (unless I misunderstood what you wrote) you are insinuating that a child who is being bullied is somehow partially responsible by presenting him/herself as weak. Can you explain that.
(sorry I'm hijacking this thread.)
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Mommy3.5
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 9:12 pm
| mamommommy wrote: | | Mommy3.5 wrote: | | 6coop wrote: | Okay, my son is NOT being bullied for being short. He is teased for being short by other kids including his friends. They do things like joke that they can fit him in the garbage can and call him shrimp etc.. Boys also don't want to be on his team for sports because his height obviously gives him a handicap in that area. Otherwise, he is VERY well liked. Boys invite him over all of the time and are otherwise nice to him. He is a very sensitive kid so when other boys are joking, he may be hurt by it and he has developed a complex about being short. I don't feel like I'm responsible for that by not building up his self-esteem enough.
And of course he'll notice that his younger brother is taller than him, I just was trying not to highlight the issue. |
I'm glad he isn't being bullied. Teasing can also be very hurtful. Sometimes kids don't really see that they are hurting others with their words. I don't see the parent as responsible for teasing, and (as long as your not saying oh your short, and will never be able to get married due to being the height of an ant ), I do not see how getting complex could ever be your fault. |
Mommy3.5 - I hope that you don't think that I'm picking on you, because I'm not trying too, but I'm wondering why (unless I misunderstood what you wrote) you are insinuating that a child who is being bullied is somehow partially responsible by presenting him/herself as weak. Can you explain that.
(sorry I'm hijacking this thread.) |
You completely misunderstood. Statistically bullies choose kids who they think will not fight back, those usually are kids with low self esteem, and weaker personalities. Kids with certain personality traits are more likely to be target. that doesn't make them at fault for the bulling. The only person at fault is the bully.
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mamommommy
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Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:23 pm
[quote="Mommy3.5]
You completely misunderstood. Statistically bullies choose kids who they think will not fight back, those usually are kids with low self esteem, and weaker personalities. Kids with certain personality traits are more likely to be target. that doesn't make them at fault for the bulling. The only person at fault is the bully.[/quote]
Okay, this sounds much better when you write it this way.
I guess I was also bothered by the insinuation that a parent is responsible for their child's lack of self-esteem. Can you concede that children have their own personalities and temperaments and sometimes no matter how much a parent may try to teach their child to be comfortable and happy with who they are, there are still certain children who will have self-esteem issues? Otherwise, you're saying that any child with a self-esteem issue has parents who didn't handle them right.
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Mommy3.5
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 12:11 am
| Quote: | | I guess I was also bothered by the insinuation that a parent is responsible for their child's lack of self-esteem. Can you concede that children have their own personalities and temperaments and sometimes no matter how much a parent may try to teach their child to be comfortable and happy with who they are, there are still certain children who will have self-esteem issues? Otherwise, you're saying that any child with a self-esteem issue has parents who didn't handle them right. |
You have completely misunderstood what I said. Again.
Parents can't give their children personality transplants, But they can help build (or crush) their child's self esteem. You can't try to smooth a kids path completely, they have to at some point in their life learn to deal with their insecurities.
Some people won't succeed, these people spend their entire lives being bullied or abused or used in some way. Its a parents Job to make sure that our kids are as prepared for the real world as possible. That means letting them sort out some of their issues on their way, instead of finding creative ways for their children not to have to face the facts.
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mamommommy
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 12:35 am
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | | Quote: | | I guess I was also bothered by the insinuation that a parent is responsible for their child's lack of self-esteem. Can you concede that children have their own personalities and temperaments and sometimes no matter how much a parent may try to teach their child to be comfortable and happy with who they are, there are still certain children who will have self-esteem issues? Otherwise, you're saying that any child with a self-esteem issue has parents who didn't handle them right. |
You have completely misunderstood what I said. Again.
Parents can't give their children personality transplants, But they can help build (or crush) their child's self esteem. You can't try to smooth a kids path completely, they have to at some point in their life learn to deal with their insecurities.
Some people won't succeed, these people spend their entire lives being bullied or abused or used in some way. Its a parents Job to make sure that our kids are as prepared for the real world as possible. That means letting them sort out some of their issues on their way, instead of finding creative ways for their children not to have to face the facts. |
Please explain more clearly (I guess I'm pretty thick) how you are not saying that parents are responsible for their kids' self-esteem issues. Also please explain why not "highlighting" a kid's specific insecurity is akin to helping a child not face the facts. Are you promoting"tough love"? Based on your comments, under what circumstances would you consider it appropriate to show some modicum of sensitivity to your child's issues?
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mamommommy
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 1:34 am
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Mommy3.5 - Forget it. You don't need to justify yourself to me. I disagree with your response to this post and we can just leave it at that. I find myself arguing too much on imamother and I'd like to stop if possible.
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Mommy3.5
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 11:16 am
| mamommommy wrote: |
Please explain more clearly (I guess I'm pretty thick) how you are not saying that parents are responsible for their kids' self-esteem issues. Also please explain why not "highlighting" a kid's specific insecurity is akin to helping a child not face the facts. Are you promoting"tough love"? Based on your comments, under what circumstances would you consider it appropriate to show some modicum of sensitivity to your child's issues? |
Meaning instead of removing all tags from the clothing, leave them in. Its ok if a kid sees his brother is the same size. Taking the tags out , does not change the reality of the situation. Be sensitive in other ways, not hyper sensitive, which causes its own issues.
"I know its hard for you that your brother is catching up to you in size, That may or may not change in the future. We have to accept what Hashem has given us, because we cannot change it. I understand that being short is sometimes very hard and annoying, But BH we still have many other good things and we are healthy. Besides, Good things come in small packages...right?"
That is sensitive, but its also reality. There is also a time and place for tough love, but, I never implied it in this kind of situation. I never, ever implied that a child with a valid complaint should not be treated with sensitivity. There is a fine line between sensitivity and coddling, IMO, cutting out tags is not sensitive, its coddling.
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6coop
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 11:37 am
| Mommy3.5 wrote: | | mamommommy wrote: |
Please explain more clearly (I guess I'm pretty thick) how you are not saying that parents are responsible for their kids' self-esteem issues. Also please explain why not "highlighting" a kid's specific insecurity is akin to helping a child not face the facts. Are you promoting"tough love"? Based on your comments, under what circumstances would you consider it appropriate to show some modicum of sensitivity to your child's issues? |
Meaning instead of removing all tags from the clothing, leave them in. Its ok if a kid sees his brother is the same size. Taking the tags out , does not change the reality of the situation. Be sensitive in other ways, not hyper sensitive, which causes its own issues.
"I know its hard for you that your brother is catching up to you in size, That may or may not change in the future. We have to accept what Hashem has given us, because we cannot change it. I understand that being short is sometimes very hard and annoying, But BH we still have many other good things and we are healthy. Besides, Good things come in small packages...right?"
That is sensitive, but its also reality. There is also a time and place for tough love, but, I never implied it in this kind of situation. I never, ever implied that a child with a valid complaint should not be treated with sensitivity. There is a fine line between sensitivity and coddling, IMO, cutting out tags is not sensitive, its coddling. |
Okay, since I'm the op, I'm going to intervene here.
Mommy3.5- in an ideal world, what you are saying may be true, but I think that what you're saying is extremely judgmental given that you know nothing about my son and his issues. I DID NOT ask for advice about his self-esteem because if I needed to I would speak to someone who is qualified to answer. You could have just answered that you don't think that cutting out tags is a good idea because it will just delay an issue that he'll have to deal with in the future anyway, and that would have been enough, instead of making a blanket pronouncement about what should or should not be done with regards to a child's self-esteem.
If you want to continue this arguement, please start a different thread.
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Mommy3.5
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Thu, Apr 15 2010, 2:42 pm
I am glad that I misunderstood you and your son has no self esteem issues.
I am glad that your son is not being bullied.
Feel free to cut the tags out of any clothing you want.
feel free to ignore me , if you choose.
I already explained to you why I said what I did, so I won't explain it again, at this point I was just defending my posts to a poster who keeps taking them out of context, making it seem that I am insensitive and do not see the problem. I used the example in the thread to show, since she seemed immune to any other argument.
This is Imamother, we all give our advice and opinions an what others have written, being the OP, doesn't mean you have to like what was said, or you can control what others will say. I could honestly care less if you use my advice, but it is still my right to give my opinion. And if someone chooses to misunderstand my post, I will defend my words where the others have taken them to task.
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