Do You Potch?! For Mothers of Children Ages 6-11 ONLY!

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Do You Potch?

Yes

35%

[ 62 ]

64%

[ 111 ]

Total Votes : 173

tweek

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 2:38 pm

Everyone makes such a big deal about not hitting in anger. And of course, I understand it, but to me it almost seems that it is worse to hit not in anger!

When a child is hit in anger, they may eventually come to realize that their parent is human, was frustrated, has poor coping skills etc (I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS OKAY!), but there is something about the description of hitting when not in anger, that really gets to me.

There is something about the calculated, self-righteousness and methodical descriptions that sounds so sadistic. I can't imagine how a child (or a parent) can ever make peace with it.

Stars

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 2:42 pm

tweek wrote:

Both are equally sadistic. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP HITTING YOUR CHILDREN especially over the age of two and a half.

THANK YOU.

tweek

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 2:46 pm

Stars wrote:

Both are equally sadistic. PEOPLE PLEASE STOP HITTING YOUR CHILDREN especially over the age of two and a half.

THANK YOU.

I clearly said that. I am just pointing out that some people seem to justify hitting when not in anger as though it is some kind of virtuous act. As if it shows that they are superhuman and in perfect control. There is an aspect of that that is very disturbing.

MrsDash

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 2:48 pm

Hey, as long as you are using a stick/belt/hammer/screw driver/banana no wider than your thumb, you can hit your wives and children all you want.

WriterMom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 3:54 pm

tweek wrote:

There is something about the calculated, self-righteousness and methodical descriptions that sounds so sadistic. I can't imagine how a child (or a parent) can ever make peace with it.

Dr. Spock said something similar, and I agree. Spanking because you've reached the end of your rope isn't good parenting, but it's a moment of weakness (for which you can ask forgiveness and atone.) Calmly choosing to do so is chilling, and much harder for children to forgive.

I don't hit, but sometimes when I lose my temper I yell. I recognize it as bad parenting, make an effort to calm myself down, apologize to my children, and consider ways to prevent being in the same situation again. It would be so much worse to have to apologize for hitting them, not just for raising my voice.

sneakermom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 4:51 pm

I agree. The methodical potch seems more abusive than the angry potch.

Both are destructive. Just one more than the other.

Leora2

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 6:37 pm

On this we will perhaps agree to disagree. As I said, I was raised with occasional, measured, calm corporal punishment and as an adult don't find that it negatively affected my relationships with either of my parents, nor with HKB"H. My relationships with my children are strong and healthy and close, and seem on par with the relationships of some of my friends who don't potch. I wasn't abused or humiliated; I was punished when I acted in a way that I knew would lead to a potch. Particularly when I was older, I understood that well, and the few spankings I received as a teenager were the clear and preset results of specific behavior choices - a consequence that as a teen I felt was worth risking the unpleasantness of a potch. I have no memory of ever being scared of either my parents and have been blessed with close relationships with them both throughout my life.

I thank all of you for your concern but on this matter we will have to disagree.

PAMOM

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 6:42 pm

Then we will all hope that your children are also the exceptions to the more typical experience. As mothers, we only want the best for them.

WriterMom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 6:46 pm

Leora2 wrote:

Then it doesn't make kids behave better, does it, if you knew you'd be hit and chose to do what you did anyway?

Look, I'm sure you're a good mother, and have a good relationship with your kids. I don't think the fact that you hit undoes everything good that you do. But you're not just 'agreeing to disagree' with imamother's collective wisdom; you're disagreeing with every parenting and development expert out there, barring a handful of Christian fundamentalists, whom I don't think you otherwise want to emulate.

Put another way: I know people who say "my parents hit me and I turned out fine." I also know people who say "my parents hit me and the memory still hurts and I wish they hadn't." I have never, once, talked to someone who said "my parents didn't hit me but I really wish they had."

sequoia

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 6:49 pm

WriterMom wrote:

Put another way: I know people who say "my parents hit me and I turned out fine." I also know people who say "my parents hit me and the memory still hurts and I wish they hadn't." I have never, once, talked to someone who said "my parents didn't hit me but I really wish they had."

That

freedomseek

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:12 pm

A potch is not abusive ! Abuse IS! An abusive person abuses! Not specific actions !
IMO, anyways.

Gitch

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:20 pm

Completely agree with tweek above about the difference between hitting out of anger and calculatedly. That's what I said earlier, how I can understand hitting out of anger - you know it's wrong, but feel unable to react differently. With some better coping mechanisms, and parenting skills you can learn to respond more appropriately.

What I don't understand is hitting calmly. Why would you?if you are completely rational and composed, why can't you think of a better alternative? With all the research showing how damaging spanking is to kids, why is this still a go to method? Or even an acceptable last resort method?

You don't spank your husband after he doesn't put his socks away for the hundredth time, and you've tried many methods, why is it ok for your kids? Just because you're stronger and more powerful?

Laiya

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:36 pm

freedomseek wrote:

A potch is not abusive ! Abuse IS! An abusive person abuses! Not specific actions !
IMO, anyways.

The word "abuse" refers to behavior. A person can be an otherwise non-abusive person, yet still engage in a particular action that is abusive.

relish

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:39 pm

freedomseek wrote:

A potch is not abusive ! Abuse IS! An abusive person abuses! Not specific actions !
IMO, anyways.

Wait...so what you are saying is that abusive is a label applied to a person, and then all of their actions are labeled as such?

I'm sorry but that sounds a bit misinformed to me.

nywife

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:44 pm

freedomseek wrote:

A potch is not abusive ! Abuse IS! .

Well yes, abuse is abusive. Thanks for clearing that up.

Stars

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:52 pm

freedomseek wrote:

A potch is not abusive ! Abuse IS! An abusive person abuses! Not specific actions !
IMO, anyways.

Huh

Leora2

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:59 pm

WriterMom wrote:

Then it doesn't make kids behave better, does it, if you knew you'd be hit and chose to do what you did anyway?

Actually, more often then not it was exactly the knowledge of the possibility of a resulting potch that deterred me from whatever teenage idea I wanted to be a part of. Occasionally, the idea or action was just too tempting, punishment regardless, coupled of course with the idea that my parents might not find out and punish me! Grounding or losing privileges didn't have the same effect for me: I had a lot of siblings and I liked my family so I didn't mind spending time with them. It was the potch that kept me out of most trouble as a teenager. My earlier point was that there was nothing so traumatizing or horrific about getting spanked. It was unpleasant, but fair. My brothers got hit at school without any rhyme or reason; for me it was the opposite: I knew that if I did x or y, I would get spanked. I think I got spanked maybe 5 times total from age 10 and on. I can tell you that in fact, I never repeated the behaviors I was potched for, so the potching absolutely served it's purpose and was 100% effective. On the other hand, I did repeat the behaviors I was grounded for or lost priveleges over.

As far as potching calmly, a potch is a punishment. You don't scream and yell at your children and banish them to their rooms or ground them, when you're punishing them do you? No, you speak calmly and reiterate that the child did x y or z and needs to have a time out. Or a grounding. Or loss of a privilege. Or whatever. A potch is simply another disciplinary option and like all, should be delivered calmly.

Again, we may agree to disagree. Perhaps those who are so opposed to a potch were either genuinely abused as children or never experienced a fair encounter with potching as discipline. Theory's great, but it doesn't alwyas underscore reality.

WriterMom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 8:05 pm

Leora2 wrote:

Perhaps those who are so opposed to a potch were either genuinely abused as children or never experienced a fair encounter with potching as discipline. Theory's great, but it doesn't alwyas underscore reality.

This is called an ad hominem argument, in which you attack the person, not their idea, and it generally comes from people who know they've no rational argument to make.

It's also an extremely cheap shot. There are plenty of victims of child abuse in this forum, and it is frankly nauseating that you're trying to leverage that to make a point.

Tell me, are the 95% + of pediatricians, psychologists, rebbeim and teachers who are strongly opposed to hitting also child abuse victims or people unfamiliar with fair discipline? SMH.

shira143

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 8:27 pm

Yes, but because I have a child who seems to not listen otherwise. Only sparingly. And only because I worked in daycare I knew I could have a child listen without being spanked.

observer

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:15 pm

I don't think it's ok to potch when not angry either. But potching in anger is not a small thing. It is a terrible thing and the Gemara brings down really strong things about it. (Dh not home now, will try to get sources later).

And besides for the spiritual repercussions, what does it teach your child? Just think about what you tell your 3 year old who hits a peer out of anger...

Page 6 of 10

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next