Do You Potch?! For Mothers of Children Ages 6-11 ONLY!

asmileaday

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:48 pm

I am against potching.

Leora is entitled to her opinion and seems like a rational loving parent. I don't think everyone should be jumping on her.

With that being said I AM very curious what kind of behavior in her book warrants a potch for a teenager.

oliveoil

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 11:25 pm

Leora - can you give some examples of things you were potched for, and things you potch your kids for? Genuinely curious.

pickle321

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:44 am

Leora2 wrote:

Actually, more often then not it was exactly the knowledge of the possibility of a resulting potch that deterred me from whatever teenage idea I wanted to be a part of. Occasionally, the idea or action was just too tempting, punishment regardless, coupled of course with the idea that my parents might not find out and punish me! Grounding or losing privileges didn't have the same effect for me: I had a lot of siblings and I liked my family so I didn't mind spending time with them. It was the potch that kept me out of most trouble as a teenager. My earlier point was that there was nothing so traumatizing or horrific about getting spanked. It was unpleasant, but fair. My brothers got hit at school without any rhyme or reason; for me it was the opposite: I knew that if I did x or y, I would get spanked. I think I got spanked maybe 5 times total from age 10 and on. I can tell you that in fact, I never repeated the behaviors I was potched for, so the potching absolutely served it's purpose and was 100% effective. On the other hand, I did repeat the behaviors I was grounded for or lost priveleges over.

As far as potching calmly, a potch is a punishment. You don't scream and yell at your children and banish them to their rooms or ground them, when you're punishing them do you? No, you speak calmly and reiterate that the child did x y or z and needs to have a time out. Or a grounding. Or loss of a privilege. Or whatever. A potch is simply another disciplinary option and like all, should be delivered calmly.

Again, we may agree to disagree. Perhaps those who are so opposed to a potch were either genuinely abused as children or never experienced a fair encounter with potching as discipline. Theory's great, but it doesn't alwyas underscore reality.

Well yes if your goal is to scare your hold so they won't do certain actions out of fear of being pitched then it is effective. Personally I don't want my children living out of fear that I might hit them for misbehaving. When you hit as a punishment you are only teaching your child not to do something because they might get hit and like u said if they think they won't get caught they'll do it anyway. This doesn't teach them right from wrong, they are only behaving to avoid a potch so what have you taught them? You haven't taught them to make good choices that's for sure they are only choosing not to get hit.

Scrabble123

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 8:16 am

I think that an occasional smack is acceptable and I don't believe that it only encourages a child to stop because they are scared: so too does taking away privileges or putting a child in time out according to that reasoning. A potch is not a punishment though. It is just a reminder, a wake up call, and should always be accompanied by a discussion. Actually any "consequence" should be understood or it is ineffective, including taking away toys or whatever you do in your home. That being said, 13 years old is too old to be receiving "5 hard smacks on her behind." It's actually ludicrous to even call 5 smacks physically effective if that's how you've been punishing her since age 2 (that being said, do not up he amount of spanks because even 1 is too much at her age). Im not going to scream and call it abuse because there are so many other factors that make something abusive or not, but Leora definitely needs to assess her parenting methods. Hitting needs to have rhyme and reason and there definitely are people who believe in such punishments for teenagers, but it is innapropriate and ineffective.

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:27 am

If my teenager wanted to do something, to the extent that only fear of a potch would stop them...or maybe they would decide they might not got caught and it's worth doing...then to me the biggest question would be whether I'm right about not allowing that thing in the first place.

I wouldn't want punishment to be the deciding factor. I would ask a Chinuch expert (Yes, I have had such situations and have asked) whether or not my position is correct, and whether there are circumstances where this should be allowed and how.

DH and I have discussed a few such topics with a wonderful Mechanech we have found to be on target. I'm glad that my teenage DD's know that if we say no to something that is important to them or they feel they are not holding by, they can discuss it with us. They know that in some cases we will tell them we will ask. Sometimes the answer is NO - with a discussion and explanation as to why. Sometimes the answer is ok, we see your side - here's what we will do but you need to abide by these rules in order to do this thing....and we each keep to our side of the deal.

It's my hope and prayer that this kind of parenting leads to my DD's being thinking individuals who keep the Torah out of appreciation and understanding - not fear of a smack.

sneakermom

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:43 am

I think this is a lot about perspective.

If I view the world in a way that I feel everyone is going to try to get away with what they can. Or they must be punished for bad choices or else they won't learn. Then sure a potch or something dcary or uncomfortable becomes necessary.

But if my children and I trust each other. That we are both safe in the relationship. That we respect each other. Then a potch becomes a betrayal. It creates an irreparable loss.

I have a teenage daughter. We are both human. Not perfect. But we both trust each other. That neither of us will betray the other. And if there are hurt feelings we can communicate them.

Trust is a sacred thing. When a child becomes a teenager this is the only power a parent really has. The connection. The relationship.

Leora2

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 4:14 pm

I agree this is a lot about perspective. We are apparently from different worlds. (-and to the poster who said that spanking doesn't happen in the Jewish world in southern communities because it happens primarily in low income under educated families--that's an ignorant, not to mention arrogant and elitist, statement.)

Not really sure why you're making assumptions about my relatinoships with my kids or my parents, or with HKB"H for that matter. There's no trust eroded between my children and I. There's no trust eroded between my parents and I. The trust is mutual, we communicate well and feel safe with each other, and there's no fear of betrayal on either side. If anything, being yelled at by my parents on the rare occasion they lost their temper when I was a child was far more damaging to our relationship and trust because I didn't know when or if or why that would erupt (although it was extremely rare, maybe once a year, if that often. They are incredibly calm people.) A potch was not scary and the conversation accompanying it ensured I was fully aware why I was getting it, in large part to provide as an incentive not to repeat whatever behavior that had evoked the potching. I usually (and genuinely) agreed it was fair and reasonable.

A potch is a consequence for a behavior. It serves technically as a punishment because after administering it, the behavior decreases (completely, in our case). The real world has consequences. If you don't go to work, you don't get paid or you lose your job. Nobody sits down and gently probes the reason why (which we actually do do prior to potching, which as I've already said, is never administered as a first line response or consequence of any kind, with the one exception of my then four year old son running into the street after a ball). If you spend all your money on a watch, you don't have any left for food and you go hungry. These are natural consequences best learned through artificial means. If you break the rules in the house, there are consequences, too.

As far as what types of behavior would earn a potch - I remember being spanked once for coming home three hours later from my friend's house then I was supposed to (no cellphones then!) and my parents had called the police, who in turn told my mother that if I was his daughter, he would give me a "good hiding." I'm sure the 10 spanks over my skirt that my mother administered with her hand would not have met with his approval. Times were different then, but the south has always been the south.... I also recall being spanked for taking my fathers car without permission (and only a learners permit). And the third teenage spanking I received was for cheating on a test at school. I never did any of those again and though a potched tush initially played a huge incentive in my not doing so, the conversations involved evolved the meaning into something more inherent - understanding of the effect of teenage insensitivity on others. Being law abiding and assuring safety of others. The results of the spanking for the test I always felt could have been achieved without the potched tush itself, because once I really thought it through and discussed gneivas daas with my parents, I was so ashamed of my actions, but who knows. The potched tush certainly cemented how serious it was. Life has consequences.

My daughters last potching was for taking her younger sister down the street for an ice cream without asking permission or telling anyone where she had gone. She came back as we were lifting the phone to call the police. This was a few months after she had done something similar and had been grounded for it. Apparently the potched tush was needed to get the gravity of the situation across. Prior to that, I can't recall needing to potch her for several years, and she hasn't been potched since. My eight year old was last potched for a repeated issue in school maybe a year ago and my six year old was potched about 6 months ago for coloring on her sister's homework -- for the third time. Although it was clear she was looking for more attention from her sister, setting aside time for them to play, role playing how to ask for attention and talking about how hard and unfair it was for big sister to have to do her homework a second time or get in trouble at school for the coloring, etc was not enough and a potch was necessary to put a stop to what was becoming a game and having consequences for her older sister. She hasn't done it since.

I feel that this conversation is over with. I've more then explained myself multiple times and I suspect that a fair number of people agree with the perspective and practice, but are afraid of being jumped all over. My system worked for me and works for my children, who are happy, healthy, trusting, active members of a close-knit family and very well-behaved and respectful. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine and I have no problem with that. Let's leave the matter as disagreed upon.

nywife

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:18 pm

Removed my post.

Last edited by nywife on Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

chavs

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:40 pm

Smacking a child's bottom can lead to zxual confusion and zxual problems. The bottom is a zxual part of a person's body and smacking them there is a violation. Find another way to discipline your kids!
Your children live at home now and dont know better but that doesn't mean that in the future this won't affect their relationship with you when they realise the effect your actions have had on their life.

Leora2

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:42 pm

Your questions strike me as somewhat perverted and leave me feeling somewhat uncomfortable. The discussion has now moved from the theoretical to I'm not even sure what. If you google spanking I'm sure you can find all sorts of smut. My daughter will in no way be a part of that kind of thinking. I am ending this thread.

nywife

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:49 pm

Leora2 wrote:

Agreed, it did come across that way and that's not how I meant it. But it's a valid concern and I hope you take that to heart. That's all.

chavs

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 5:50 pm

Leora2 wrote:

I think you've got it upside down, it's not the thread that is the problem, it's the spanking. You are seeing it and not liking it, the solution is to not spank!

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:10 pm

Leora2 wrote:

Please understand that some of us find a father methodically spanking a female teen to be be a bit perverted as well.

PAMOM

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:11 pm

Yes, "real life" like bring late for work has consequences, but if the consequences are "potching," the aggressor is guilty of assault.

WriterMom

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:16 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Please understand that some of us find a father methodically spanking a female teen to be be a bit perverted as well.

I am fascinated and disturbed that someone can be aware that spanking is a fixation for some, can be uncomfortable discussing hitting a teen in an erogenous zone, and yet is a-okay with actually hitting a teen in an erogenous zone. Rolling Eyes

Cognitive dissonance is never fun.

nywife

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:21 pm

WriterMom wrote:

Cognitive dissonance is never fun.

Thank you.
I removed my post because I felt like a skeevy perv saying it but yes, why is hitting a teenage girl on the behind not perverted?

Leora2

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:22 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Please understand that some of us find a father methodically spanking a female teen to be be a bit perverted as well.

I've already said my DH does not spank my daughter anymore due to her age. We all agree that would be inappropriate and troubling.

Leora2

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:23 pm

nywife wrote:

Thank you.
I removed my post because I felt like a skeevy perv saying it but yes, why is hitting a teenage girl on the behind not perverted?

And we're back to the whether or not you believe in spanking discussion. We disagree. I know. I hear you. I'm out.

myself

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:38 pm

Leora, I commend you for not hiding behind amother.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 6:54 pm

Leora2 wrote:

I've already said my DH does not spank my daughter anymore due to her age. We all agree that would be inappropriate and troubling.

What will be your new method of discipline since potching failed? I'm still confused about the learning curve on potching. What are you going to do now that you actually have to teach your daughter acceptable behaviors instead of ritualized hitting.