Do You Potch?! For Mothers of Children Ages 6-11 ONLY!

amother

Ruby

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 11:57 am

and I understand what everyone is trying to accomplish but really haven't you ever heard of catching more flies with honey than vinegar.

email makes it so easy to say things one would never say to another person's face. and I truly believe all of our comments would be tempered if we were just seeing the person who we are responding to as opposed to typing into a vast void.

I don't know the right answer about whether to potch or not and I know better now than to ever say what happened when I grew up or how I discipline my children now. I don't think the OP ever thought this thread would go where it did. It just truly hurts me that we are attacking someone who we don't know and we will likely never meet. I sometimes wonder if our responses to some questions won't push a fragile person into a worse place. Just my thoughts; ones I have vocalized to Yael. I won't respond on this topic again.

I wish everyone reading the posts on this topic an introspective Nine Days and a meaningful fast. Hopefully this website will lead to a better understanding of all those of us from the different paths of orthodox jewish life and and may we be zocheh to the geulah, b'ito achishena.

amother

Orchid

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:03 pm

chavs wrote:

Orchid, there is more to parenting then finding the right way to punish a child. If the child is laughing at the parent or the child doesn't know the difference between danger and accidents there are bigger issues than punishing at stake. It's time to look at what's going on for the kids and for the family rather than bigger punishments. It could be that they need to work on their attachment, it could be that the child or parent has anxieties or a while lot of other things. Hitting is not going to solve those issues, it might frighten or shame the kids into behaving temporarily, but it's nothing more than a plaster over an oozing wound that needs tending some other way.
As sometime else said parenting involves effort, humour etc, it's more than just getting the kids in line and figuring out how to do that, it's about building the next generation, raising human beings.

Chavs, I am not an idiot, I am aware of the ins and outs of raising a family. I was using those extreme examples for those people who say "I would never" about potching. Obviously those parents I highlighted were the extreme, I was pointing out that whatever method is chosen it has to be right for your family. You say hitting doesn't work in those situations but clearly it worked with my cousin who is now a successful mother herself with very well adjusted children. She often talks about that incident and said it was when she first believed her mother was actually a mother, not a friend.

As I said before, if parents are doing their jobs there is very little need for punishments at all. There is respect, obedience, love from all sides.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:03 pm

amother wrote:

What I was trying to point out is that parenting is not one size fits all. Some teenagers need the threat of a potch, if not an actual one. It is not up to random people to decide for them. A teenager who has the mind to avoid unpleasant punishment will respond the same to the threat of removing a privilege as a threat of a potch. If it works it works. If they are going to defy you and do what they want it is going to happen no matter what the punishment might be. When I was growing up the worst thing was to disappoint my mother. I avoided it like the plague. However if there was something I wanted more than I cared about my mother's feeling I was going to do it. Get it?

I am not saying you should potch a teen, I am saying that I would hope parents would have done their job so when the child is a teen potching is unnecessary.

Yes lots of good parents dont potch but lots of good parents do.!

I cannot in good conscience consider any parent who would potch their teen a good parent.

I'm not into potching for younger children either....but at the teenage stage, if a child is not behaving as they should, other methods must come into play. Potching should be off limits.

Just as no one would condone a husband smacking his wife, even if her behavior was not as it should be....we would call it abuse. It's the same for a teen.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:13 pm

amother wrote:

At the risk of sounding preachy, which I will now that I said that, why are we all attacking Leora? That wasn't the purpose of the question or frankly her rather candid and thought out responses.

Everyone has to figure out what works for their family and if we don't agree with her, then so be it. But calling her names and attacking her personally is really not the way to go. I'll also say that no one is going to convince her to change her mind by calling her abusive or worse, a s-xual predator.

It's the three weeks, ladies, and sometimes I think this website fosters more sinas chinam than anything else I read, see or hear. Just something to consider.

Amother so I'm not subject to abuse or rhetoric.

Because we object to hitting a teenager (five times on the bottom, no less.) Even once in a few years.

I think imamother is a great site where frum women come together to share ideas and perspectives. I know that personally, I've learned alot from this site. It has lead me to rethink some of my ideas and perceptions, and to grow.

The intense discussion here demonstrates how strongly some of us feel about the wrongness of hitting a teenager. I hope it may lead Leora and others to rethink their position. Perhaps she might realize how inappropriate it is to do this. It would be worth it for all of us if that happens, to spare one teen (or others like her) the humiliation and shame.

I'm not amother. I feel strongly enough about this belief to post under my screenname.

amother

Orchid

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:16 pm

Chayalle wrote:

They are two completely different scenarios! Why are you attempting to mesh an abused wife and an unruly teenager? Did you not read that I said I didn't think you should hit a teen? Teenagers are still children who need love and guidance and sometimes punishment. It is not up to Chayalle to decide who is a good parent and who is not. In all honesty I do not spank my children. I don't have to, they respond to other ways.

Isn't life hard enough without blind judgement? You don't know the scenario in their homes, you don't know the temperament of the children but you are judging quite harshly as if you do. If your children are teens and they behave in a way that hitting isn't necessary, good for you, you did a good job. Your methods work for your family.

As for posting under your screen name, goodie for you. I am anon because I have family on here who know the stories I told.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:23 pm

amother wrote:

Because hitting a teenager is abusive.

You are right, I don't know the scenario in their homes....but I still object to hitting teenagers, no matter what their temperament is.

Unruly teenagers may need interventions, but hitting them isn't it. (take them to a therapist.)

I guess we can agree to disagree...but I will never condone hitting a teenager.

chavs

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

A parent can be a parent without resorting to hitting, you wrote that it's the first time her mother acted like a mother but that in itself is really sad and speaks to a really messed up situation, where this could have been accomplished otherwise.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 2:19 pm

amother wrote:

...
Isn't life hard enough without blind judgement? You don't know the scenario in their homes, you don't know the temperament of the children but you are judging quite harshly as if you do. If your children are teens and they behave in a way that hitting isn't necessary, good for you, you did a good job. Your methods work for your family.

There are numerous threads (some are pretty current) that address discipline without hitting. If you read them you would see there are a wide variety of temperaments represented and good constructive solutions to discipline that don't require hitting.

Jenna5

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 6:49 pm

This post was my entry into imamother. I'm thinking it'll be my last. I'm just about bowled over by the ridiculousness of these past few pages. I have two kids, one, I potched as a last resort from about age 5-8. The other got a potch once, I think, but he never really needed to be potched; loss of privilege or even just a LOOK from dh or I was enough to stop whatever was happening. I don't believe in potching on a regular basis, and I don't think potching a teenager is ideal.
That said, there are many, many, many, many people who grew up being spanked on the butt, even being spanked on the bare butt, and did not develop seexual fetishes about spanking as adults. That's a fact. You quite simply don't know what Leora's children will grow into and absurd to assume that you do.

It seems pretty clear that Leora's approach was not abusive. While there is certainly what to debate about spanking a teenager, the bottom line remains that we don't know her or her family, she maintains occasional potching as a teenager was beneficial for both her and her husband, and that it continues to be so for her children. We've seen in this post alone one person suggest she might have prefered a measured potch then nothing -- which leads me to feel rather certain that others may feel the same and are not brave enough to speak out (and I DON'T BLAME THEM given all the insanity that's come from this post!)

Like I said, I feel neutral about spanking though I don't think it's appropriate for a teenager. But we don't know Leora or her family and I'm reading a slew of vicious, attacking replies. My first thought, to be honest, was that the whole lot of you imamothers clearly needed a great deal MORE potching and spanking as children as you have not learned to be tactful, wise, welcoming or gracious. Rather, you are cruel, nasty, unsympathetic, self-righteously bullying and deliberately misread into Leora's words. If we were children, you would be the bullies I'd avoid on the playground. I disagree with some of Leora's tactics, but I certainly hope that she is keeping to waht she said - that she's done with this thread and has not read these latest absurdities.

In fact the behavior I've watched here -- I'm feeling pretty sure I'm done with imamohter. This is not a welcoming place to share expereinces and thoughts between frum women. From what I've seen, it's a place of judgementalism, small-mindedness, and cruelty. And at this time of year of all times. Shame on this whole thread.

anonymrs

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 7:17 pm

Jenna5 wrote:

It seems pretty clear that Leora's approach was not abusive. While there is certainly what to debate about spanking a teenager, the bottom line remains that we don't know her or her family, she maintains occasional potching as a teenager was beneficial for both her and her husband, and that it continues to be so for her children. We've seen in this post alone one person suggest she might have prefered a measured potch then nothing -- which leads me to feel rather certain that others may feel the same and are not brave enough to speak out (and I DON'T BLAME THEM given all the insanity that's come from this post!)

Sorry, I couldn't help it, considering the topic of discussion.....

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 7:51 pm

Jenna5 wrote:

You are prone to drama and exaggeration. The nonpotchers here all have done more than ample research to support their positions and presented ample evidence to support their positions. It's a pity you couldn't post a nonemotional response to this subject, most of the nonpotchers have been able to do so and still get their points across.

Laiya

Wed, Jul 15 2015, 9:46 pm

Jenna5 wrote:

But we don't know Leora or her family and I'm reading a slew of vicious, attacking replies. My first thought, to be honest, was that the whole lot of you imamothers clearly needed a great deal MORE potching and spanking as children as you have not learned to be tactful, wise, welcoming or gracious. Rather, you are cruel, nasty, unsympathetic, self-righteously bullying and deliberately misread into Leora's words. If we were children, you would be the bullies I'd avoid on the playground. I disagree with some of Leora's tactics, but I certainly hope that she is keeping to waht she said - that she's done with this thread and has not read these latest absurdities.

In fact the behavior I've watched here -- I'm feeling pretty sure I'm done with imamohter. This is not a welcoming place to share expereinces and thoughts between frum women. From what I've seen, it's a place of judgementalism, small-mindedness, and cruelty. And at this time of year of all times. Shame on this whole thread.

Very disrespectful post, including name-calling, put-downs, sarcasm, belittling, and attributing false motives.

nywife

Thu, Jul 16 2015, 3:38 am

Jenna5 wrote:

While I do agree that a few posters tend to be snarky, the vast majority are nice caring individuals who can't stand the thought of a child being hurt. I am all for respecting ones discipline methods-- up until the point where they're damaging. I'm sure Leora is a smart and generally good mother, but this is an aspect of parenting that in the opinion of many, is unacceptable.
Also, if you don't like the heat of debate threads, there are plenty of other options. (Not said in a rude tone).