odd number of eggs

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Odd number of eggs

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Yael

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:40 pm

I received the following question via email:

Could you please help me answer this question. I’ve asked countless Jewish people and they cannot give me a satisfactory answer.

Why do Jewish Women put an odd number of eggs in a saucepan to boil?

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:44 pm

it's not that we cook an odd number. it's that we cook at least three. I believe this has to do with the possiblity of blood spots in the eggs. if I'm not mistaken, the idea is that if one egg has a blood spot, it is batul and does not affect the kashrus of the other eggs or the pot being used.

I don't have a particular source for this, you can check with a competent rav.

chocolate moose

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:56 pm

Right. It makes it botul.

Yael

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:56 pm

This is what I wrote to him before posting:

Quote:

I believe the reason comes from the following idea:
If one of the eggs turns out to have a blood spot in it, it could potentially make your pot trief unless there are more eggs without the blood than with it. this is why a minimum of 3 eggs is used. the odd number of more eggs than that may be people taking it further.

It would make for an interesting thread topic though, and I will post your question on the forum.

I'll let him know he can look here for more responses confirming what I said to him.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:01 pm

The idea is if you have an odd # of eggs, if "half" are trayf and "half" are kosher, the odd egg will be the deciding factor on the status of the pot and "kosher" eggs.

cassandra

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:02 pm

The principle is batel b'rov, and you need three to have a rov- one could have a blood spot, two one could have and one could not, three we assume that two do not have and therefore it doesn't matter if the third one does because we follow the rov. Since you can't check the eggs before cooking them, we rely on batel b'rov instead.

saw50st8

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:14 pm

This is interesting. I've never heard of this before.

In practicality, I've never made fewer than 3 eggs because what do you do with 1-2 hard boiled eggs?

Is this halacha l'maaseh across the board?

cassandra

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:20 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

This is interesting. I've never heard of this before.

In practicality, I've never made fewer than 3 eggs because what do you do with 1-2 hard boiled eggs?

Is this halacha l'maaseh across the board?

I think it's just good advice. L'maaseh bloodspots today aren't assur anyway Wink

saw50st8

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:23 pm

If you buy free range eggs they are, no? I mean, if they've had the possibility of being fertilized.

Although I don't get those, so its really a moot point LOL.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:24 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

This is interesting. I've never heard of this before.

In practicality, I've never made fewer than 3 eggs because what do you do with 1-2 hard boiled eggs?

Is this halacha l'maaseh across the board?

It's a fascinating discussion.

Some hold you simply need more than 3 eggs - even if it's an even number because there *should* be a clear majority.

Some hold you don't have to check hard boiled eggs if there are more than three, because there *should* be a a majority of kosher eggs.

The issue with both these opinions is that while the majority of commercial eggs in America *don't* have eggs spots, the occasional one will get through - that's why we check them when we're scrambling eggs, making cakes, etc. But you can't do that with a hard boiled egg. You have to wait for the egg to cook first.

But in most kosher restaurants, they don't check each individual hard boiled egg for blood spots - the volume of eggs is too high to check each one - and the major kashrus organizations allow it. (another thing kashrus organizations allow that most women wouldn't do in their own homes)

If you're using organic or free range eggs, then this is a bigger concern for you because the incidence of blood spots is much higher.

Personally, I always boil an odd number of eggs and always at least 3 or more. I always check my hard boiled eggs. But I've never had an issue where I boiled let's say 9 eggs and 4 or 5 of them had blood spots. Never. So in some ways it's a theoretical question. I'm sure 100 years ago it was much different.

Yael

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:24 pm

Quote:

I think it's just good advice. L'maaseh bloodspots today aren't assur anyway

as long as the eggs havent been fertilized.
I wouldnt just say it across the board. what if an imamother lives on a farm and is eating fertilized eggs? Wink

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:56 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

But in most kosher restaurants, they don't check each individual hard boiled egg for blood spots - the volume of eggs is too high to check each one - and the major kashrus organizations allow it. (another thing kashrus organizations allow that most women wouldn't do in their own homes)

Do most people really check hard boiled eggs? We don't - just raw ones - and I know my rav holds thats fine.

So in that case...maybe it's another thing kashrus organizations allow that most women wouldnt do in their own homes...because they dont know that it's okay Wink

tralala

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:57 pm

Cooking less then 3 eggs can be a problem with a blitstrop, but odd has to do with "zigges".

This is not only with eggs btw.

myself

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 3:21 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

I've never heard of anyone checking boiled eggs. Only raw eggs need to be checked!

cassandra

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 3:42 pm

Yael wrote:

Quote:

I think it's just good advice. L'maaseh bloodspots today aren't assur anyway

as long as the eggs havent been fertilized.
I wouldnt just say it across the board. what if an imamother lives on a farm and is eating fertilized eggs? Wink

If Rav Moshe can phrase it that way I feel comfortable phrasing it that way too, but yes, if you are eating eggs from a genuinely free range farm where there are both roosters and hens then there is still a halachic issue.

aidelmaidel

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 3:43 pm

myself wrote:

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

I've never heard of anyone checking boiled eggs. Only raw eggs need to be checked!

Edited to Add: That's what YOUR Rov says.

I'm not saying one way is more correct than the other - I'm just saying different halachic opinions, that's all. Very Happy

Most certainly in my community (Crown Heights) I would say most (note I didn't say ALL) check their hard boiled eggs.

You would be surprised how often I find blood spots. About once every 2-3 months and I boil eggs for every shabbos. They're not hard to check - you open them and look where the white and yolk meet - you'll see the blood in the white immediately.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 3:58 pm

tralala wrote:

Cooking less then 3 eggs can be a problem with a blitstrop, but odd has to do with "zigges".

This is not only with eggs btw.

You mean an even number has to do with 'zugos' and not everyone is maqpid to avoid zugos.

Mrs. XYZ

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 4:34 pm

myself wrote:

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

I've never heard of anyone checking boiled eggs.

We do.

Quote:

Only raw eggs need to be checked!

Why? Does the cooking make it botul?

chocolate moose

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 4:59 pm

Some check hasrd cooked eggs too. I assume they boil an odd number anyway.

Babka

Sat, Feb 05 2011, 11:10 pm

My husband is a farm manager and we will b"h be getting most of our eggs from cage free chickens. Today I was cutting open hard boiled eggs to serve for shabbos. They were all boiled in odd numbers, but when I cut them open, I found that about a fourth of them had blood in the whites, but not in the yolks.

What is the halacha on what parts can be eaten?
Does the whole egg have to be thrown out?
If there is blood on the white, but not the yolk, can the yolk still be eaten?
How big does a spot on the white have to be to consider it blood?
I've heard some say that nowadays we throw away the whole egg even if there is just blood on the white, because it is not a financial burden to buy more eggs...but getting eggs for us is not about finances, it's about eating the eggs that are from the farm where we live.

Any thoughts?

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