Can a Jew with a tattoo ever be buried in a Jewish cemetery?

suzyq

Tue, May 10 2011, 9:12 am

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

This makes me furious. And sad that people are so afraid of something that isn't even true.

So, are you saying that tatoo and permanent make-up that is like a tatoo are muttar???

No, she's not saying that. What she is saying is, that although it is assur to get a tattoo, it has nothing to do with whether you're buried in a Jewish cemetery. One has nothing to do with the other.

imamama

Tue, May 10 2011, 12:06 pm

A cosmetician friend actually told me that there are some rabbis who allow permanent make-up because it's not done with ink, but with henna, and it wears off in about 8 months. It is subcutaneous, but not permanent.

bigsis144

Tue, May 10 2011, 12:21 pm

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

This makes me furious. And sad that people are so afraid of something that isn't even true.

So, are you saying that tatoo and permanent make-up that is like a tatoo are muttar???

Your argument makes no sense.

When bubby said "that isn't even true" she was referring to the myth that tattoos will prevent someone from having a Jewish burial, not that it "isn't true" that tattoos are assur.

Someone can be mechalel Shabbos or marry a [gentile] or eat cheeseburgers and still be buried in a Jewish cemetery, but that doesn't make them muttar.

Barbara

Tue, May 10 2011, 12:26 pm

suzyq wrote:

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

This makes me furious. And sad that people are so afraid of something that isn't even true.

So, are you saying that tatoo and permanent make-up that is like a tatoo are muttar???

If I may ...

This is a myth as old as the hills, and not one that is spread only in the Orthodox community. I remember reading an interview with a musician who had all kinds of weird piercings, including a big square of steel near his lower lip, but no tattoos. He was asked about it, and he said it was because he's Jewish, and it would kill his grandfather if he (the musician) couldn't be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

But it is a myth.

We're not allowed to eat treyf, but no one requires proof that you kept kosher in order to buried in a Jewish cemetery.

You can insert any Jewish law in there. You can still be buried. Then HaShem gets to judge.

mommyla

Tue, May 10 2011, 1:53 pm

I have a GREAT tattoo story!

My husband is on Chaveirim (for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a volunteer organization that helps with auto and other emergencies, like lockouts, flat tires, dead batteries, etc.). So the other day, I bought my son a Hot Wheels car that came with free "tattoos," the kind you stick on with water. For fun, I stuck one (a monster truck design) on my dh's bicep.

Early the next morning, we were awakened by the "emergency" tone on his Chaveirim radio. A small child (18 months) was locked in a house by himself. Dh leapt out of bed and ran to help, stopping only to put on shoes and pants. He came home shortly after, laughing hysterically. As he was fiddling with the lock on the front door, the mother of the child locked in was staring at him for no apparent reason - he figured she was just panicky. But in the car on the way home, he realized he was wearing his undershirt... with his "tattoo" proudly on display!

We got a good laugh out of that one.

curlytop

Tue, May 10 2011, 1:56 pm

mommyla wrote:

bubby

Tue, May 10 2011, 4:18 pm

suzyq wrote:

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

This makes me furious. And sad that people are so afraid of something that isn't even true.

So, are you saying that tatoo and permanent make-up that is like a tatoo are muttar???

SIGH.

Thank you, suzyq.

zaq

Tue, May 10 2011, 10:33 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

I have a rebbetzin friend (Chareidi) who got a psak that she may get "permanent" makeup. The question was about chatzitza for mikva, not burial.

Then it's not a genuine tattoo but the chemical stuff that dyes the skin but wears off over time. A genuine tattoo is forever and is not a chatzitzah. There are now laser treatments that can remove tattoos, but they're painful in and of themselves, don't always remove the entire image, and don't necessarily result in normal-looking skin. They sort of burn off the tattoo, which you might want to endure if your tattoo says something offensive that is no longer "you" or if it's visible when you wear street clothes and you're trying to fit in to a very conservative community or workplace.

thatworn

Wed, May 11 2011, 7:42 am

imabima wrote:

This is a myth altogether. I have a tatoo (from my 'previous life') and asked my Rav. He said it's not a problem.

Yeah I have ink also. And I always heard that "no no no burial in jewish cemetery" or "yes u can have a burial but they'll slice off the tatts first". It's one of those myths, like the hole in the sheet. probably based on something way off.

DH was at a shiur once by a bunch of BTs and they asked the Rabbi, who looked astounded like he'd never heard the myth before.

thatworn

Wed, May 11 2011, 7:46 am

zaq wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

I have a rebbetzin friend (Chareidi) who got a psak that she may get "permanent" makeup. The question was about chatzitza for mikva, not burial.

DON'T do laser. OW! The damage it does to your skin is worse than the damage of the tattoos. Blisters, blood, swelling. If you'e prone to cold sores, they pop up after a laser session. An the EXPENSE!!!!! it is so not worth it.

zaq

Wed, May 11 2011, 8:23 am

thatworn wrote:

Not if you have a rose and butterfly on your shoulder. otoh, if you have "@#$%&*!! You" on the back of your hand, or even on your shoulder...if you're married and have children, your mikvah lady has eyes and may be asked about you and your children when it comes to shidduchim, so you may feel the pain is worth it to erase this part of your past. Or maybe your truly tasteless tattoo deeply offends your dh and it turns him off every time you get cozy.

bubby

Wed, May 11 2011, 8:42 am

zaq wrote:

otoh, if you have "@#$%&*!! You" on the back of your hand, or even on your shoulder...

Do people permanently curse like that? I thought the biggest problem is tattooing "Gloria" & then hooking up with Mary! You live & learn! LOL

suzyq

Wed, May 11 2011, 8:53 am

zaq wrote:

thatworn wrote:

I am disturbed by this on so many levels.

1) I wouldn't imagine it would be appropriate for a mikvah lady to be asked about someone for shidduchim, OR to give answers.

2) A mikvah lady who sees a woman with a tattoo should be in awe of her. That this woman led a life in which she chose to have a tattoo, and then changed her life for Hashem so much that she is going to the mikvah? And that would be used against her? Sickening.

Signed, someone who has 2 tattoos and very proudly does NOT cover them up.

thatworn

Wed, May 11 2011, 9:05 am

zaq wrote:

thatworn wrote:

Maybe my DC will marry children of other tattooed terrors like I.
In fact, I might ask the mikveh lady to be on the look out for other inked-up women with children of similar ages, so we can make the shidduchim now!

I don't think the DH can see my tattoos as I'm always covered up except at times when it's dark al pi halocha. Sorry if TMI...

zaq

Wed, May 11 2011, 9:30 am

suzyq wrote:

That this woman led a life in which she chose to have a tattoo, and then changed her life for Hashem so much that she is going to the mikvah? And that would be used against her? Sickening.

My example was hypothetical--I have never asked my mikvah lady whether or not she has any embellished clients, nor is she likely to tell me if I did. But considering that in some circles anything you say or do or have ever said or done can and will be held against you and your children, right down to your choice of footwear and color of tablecloth--it's safe to say that someone somewhere is likely to hold this against you, too. You seem to have sufficient self-confidence to hold your own in the face of such things, for which you are to be admired and for which you can be grateful, but not everyone is so self-assured.