My 7 week old won't sleep on his back anymore!

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allrgymama

Tue, May 17 2011, 10:54 pm

@debboz: I had intended for DD to sleep on her back, but the (completely incompetent) nurse my mother found for me had other ideas. DD has, as a result, slept on her stomach since before she was a week old and, baruch Hashem, is just fine.

Since we do cover her with a blanket (I live in a really old house. It's not possible to keep the house at a temperature that is good for me, DH and DD at the same time), we make a habit of going into her room repeatedly after she's gone to bed to make sure that she's covered properly -- meaning, if the blanket is off, we put it back on, and if the blanket is over her head (as it was 15 minutes ago) we adjust it.

I'm not stepping into the SIDS argument.

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:05 pm

We put our first kid the first night on her back and that was the end of it. We were literally up a whole night with her. Thereafter all my kids went on their tummies.

I heard from a Hatzolah member that most SIDS cases are with the mother sleeping in the same bed as the baby. Anyone heard of that?

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:21 pm

Yes! capitalchick, we sure do have a more worry free, happy life, and so do our babies, because we do whatever is in our hands to protect our children. We do sleep good at night. unlike you, always worried if your baby is protected enough, even if its not in your hands. It is asked how much do we have to do for it to be the utmost hishtadlus, how much till we leave it in the hands of hashem? This is the perfect example. Noone said to not plug your outlets, noone said to not put baby gates, noone said to put who knows what into a baby's crib either. But to go over board in laying a baby on her back (even though most of the time they don't sleep AS comfortable) and lay a straight sheet-like "blanket" barely covering the baby, and tucking it under the mattress, to make sure your baby can't move, and blow a fan at him............isn't that a bit overboard, Esp. Because it was NEVER done?

maze

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:25 pm

to the amother who believes in tummy sleep:
I have to agree with capitalchick.
have you not heard of the concept of not putting yourself or others dependent on you in a dangerous situation? would you let your kids walk into the street and then depend on Hashem to save them from cars and other dangers? you talk about hishtadlus...Putting them to sleep on their backs-is exactly that.
you can't prove anything by anecdote. just because you and your siblings and kids till now were fortunate to be healthy and well bh, doesn't mean that that sleeping method is the correct way. Hashem entrusted you with precious neshamot who depend on you for everything including their safety. If you aren't aware that back sleeping greatly reduces the risk of death, do your research.

maze

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:32 pm

and yes, cosleeping increases the chances the baby will suffocate c''v.
Babies shouldn't be sleeping with toys, pillows, or loose blankets in their cribs.

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:38 pm

Unbelievable, what this worlds comes to.....!!

One day, when the statistics will change, we'll hear what you have to say then.

I DID say not to leave things in the crib. Read up. But there sure is a limit

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 11:50 pm

And capitalchick, another thought. (That a dr actually told me) is your car wrapped in bubble wrap?! Accidents DO happen, you never know, you don't want anything to happen to you!
See where I'm getting at? If you don't............ Rolling Eyes

Capitalchick

Wed, May 18 2011, 12:05 am

amother wrote:

To all those following the conversation, if the bolded parts in the post above don't tell you a little bit about this poster and the weight you should be granting her arguments, then I don't know what will.

And as for the amother above, you clearly haven't read what I wrote, because I DO put my baby to sleep on her stomach, not her back! What I wrote is that I take certain precautions to ensure that, in her early days/months, when she might not be able to get herself out of a suffocating position, she stands a better chance at being protected.

At no time did I imply that I blow a fan at my baby. In fact, quite the opposite. I blow the fan in the opposite direction of the baby. The purpose of the fan is to keep the air in the baby's room circulating, so that even in cases where the baby's head might get caught under the light blanket we lay over top of her, or even if she ends up face down in the crib, the air in the room is circulating enough that pockets of carbon monoxide don't form.

I have no idea where you got the idea about putting my baby in a straight jacket and/or tucking the blankets under the mattress - both are figments of your imagination. I did, however, say that sheets in the crib should be well fitted, so that they don't bunch up and potentially pose suffocation risks.

Look, the bottom line is this: I am not a fanatic. The doctors advise parents to keep their children on their backs. I, like so many other parents, found that my baby slept far better on her stomach. And so, in an effort to balance safety with practicality, I took some steps to ensure that, even on her stomach, my baby could be as well protected as I could possible make her. I recognize that not everything is in my power, but certainly as a mother, I have a very big responsibility to use all the tools at my disposal (thanks to Hashem!) to protect my baby.

So, if someone would like to put their infant to sleep on their stomach, but are concerned about the risk of SIDS, I will summarize my previous points on the matter. The best steps to take in preventing SIDS are the following:
1) Get the air in the baby's room circulating with a fan (ceiling or free standing). It doesn't have to be blasting. You just want the air continuously circulating.
2) Keep your child warm, but not overheated.
3) Keep heavy blankets out of the crib/bassinet. If you really want to cover them, get a sleep sack or a light cloth to cover them with.
4) Make sure that there are no stuffed animals or overly large sheets in the crib. Sheets can bunch up and pose a risk to the child. Sheets should be well fitted to the mattress.
5) Never allow anyone to smoke around your baby.

Capitalchick

Wed, May 18 2011, 12:13 am

amother wrote:

Again, your logic is terribly flawed. There is a difference between an accident that was not foreseeable, and the loss of life that results from not having taken the proper steps to prevent death in the first place.

If your baby wiggles over to the thick, fabric bumper pads on the side of his/her crib and then suffocates to death on them, then that's not called an 'accident'. Like it or not, that is the result of the parents not knowing about (or G-d forbid ignoring) the advice of all doctors, who tell us that bumper pads are a huge suffocation risk for babies.

An 'accident' would be if the crib just collapsed and crushed the baby. You couldn't have seen that coming and there's nothing you could've done to prevent it.

Do you understand the difference?

I believe that it is worthwhile to take steps to protect our children. You don't believe that we have any power over whether our children survive or not, and so you poo poo any suggestion of 'precautions' we can take to prevent death. Your loss.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 12:20 am

Capitalchick, I'm gonna have to apologize, I didn't mean specifically YOU (although I HAVE used your name) there were too many people posting here, lost track of who said what. For some reason, I pictured your baby (like in photos) glued down to the bare bed, with a receiving blanket at waist height, tucked under the mattress from both sides, with a fan blowing at him, and a "monitor" checking his every breath, cause YOU'RE the one keeping him alive!! LOL

It sure looks like we're both on the same track. . I'll have to think about the fan, though. Wink

DrMom

Wed, May 18 2011, 12:39 am

I let my babies sleep however they are most comfortable. One preferred to be on his back, the others on their tummies.

I make sure the crib is equipped w/a firm mattress, no pillow, tautly fastened not-too-puffy bumpers, and I use heavier pjs instead of a blanket.

Jacoby

Wed, May 18 2011, 1:15 am

Amother- how can you completely disregard the tremendous decrease of deaths caused by SIDS since the sleep on back campaign?
I am also not certain that SIDS babies die directly because of the fact that they are on their tummy. However, if the numbers of SIDS deaths were reduced dramatically from babies sleeping on their backs, then I definitely will try as hard as possible to put my baby on his back!
True, there are always exceptions to the rules like babies who really can't sleep on their backs(although I do feel that it often happens after they got accustomed to sleeping on their tummy).
Why wouldn't you want to do everything possible in your hands, to assure the safety of your child??
To OP, try swaddling her tightly, try side sleeping, try in a car seat for now. Good luck.

Shopmiami49

Wed, May 18 2011, 4:37 am

amother wrote:

Gosh! You people still believe in SIDS?!?!
My mom brought us all up (15 of us) on our stomachs. I don't think there were as many SIDS "cases" in those times, as much as there is now! These people made a study on babies sleeping on their stomach, why didn't they make a study about the temperature in the room at the time, or the blanket that covered the baby's face, and didn't allow her to breath. For some idiotic reason they studied just this! And decided that THIS causes SIDS and people are going literally crazy!! I put all 4 of my kids on their stomach, yes, I told my dr I do. And guess what, he was laughing, cause he knows the stupidity, and no! I did NOT make sure the sheet is extremely tight (it comes tight enough) and I DID cover them with a regular blanket. And GUESS WHAT everythings fine with them. And ALL of my 15 siblings kids too (and that's a lot!!)
And to the amother who "made sure her baby's safe" you think YOU'RE the one that "made sure your baby's safe?! How about hashem protected him!! No amount of "safety measure" can "protect" him. Yes we have to do hishtadlus, and the most we can do to protect our precious kids is put them into bed, comfortably on their stomach (that's the "only" comfortable way) cover them to be warm, kiss them good night, and daven to hashem to protect them. I'm not saying you should leave loose, dangerous things in the crib, but you surely shouldn't go crazy letting a kid sleep without a blanket, or a tight one that wouldn't let them move, or put a fan in the room, for goodness sake!!
I know of a healthy baby that just died in her sleep at age 15 MONTHS!!!! Yes, she slept on her stomach, but you gotta be DUMB to believe she died because she slept on her stomach all those months. What happened all of a sudden, at 15 months??!!
Hashem, takes a baby when the "times" right! There were plenty babies who died from SIDS sleeping on their backs. Just cause their "percentage" on the stomach is higher, doesn't mean a THING. If they looked into another "possibility" they also would've had a bigger percentage in one thing, more than the other.
Its interesting to me that people still believe in it, after they themselves (and their siblings) grew up just fine, without their mother "making sure". And now, when everyones "making sure" look how many tragedies have hit us.

Just a question to the OP, have you EVER slept comfortably on your back?! Just asking.
What do you want from the poor thing?

There are those with opinions, and then there are those who are opinionated...

I have to say that I am completely shocked at the tone and mockery of this post. I'm not getting into a who's right and who's wrong debate, but this is just so callous. Can't you state your opinion is such a way that doesn't pierce the hearts of those who HAVE lost a baby to SIDS, lo aleinu? B"H, you are lucky that you, your siblings, and your babies are all alive and well. But there are those who have lost their precious babies to SIDS - both those who are completely laid back abotu it, as you seem to be, and those who are completely paranoid about it. You are right in saying that it's up to Hashem to take which babies He wants at which times, but please, have a little compassion from those out there who are suffering.

As a side note, this post is like a deja vu to me - a friend of mine used to completely mock the whole "SIDS thing". She did whatever she felt was best for her baby and felt like the world's best mommy...until the day she lost her baby to SIDS. Now? Now she is eating herself up in guilt and is completely OCD with her babies...This just goes to show that a person really can not understand the pain and fear that others experience with SIDS unless they have gone through the trauma of losing a child themselves, lo aleinu.

BUT that is totally not an excuse for not being compassionate and sensitive...

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:02 am

Shopmiami49, I'm "that amother",

Looks like you haven't read all the posts. As I'm all with you. I corrected myself later, saying that its not the SIDS I don't believe in, my wording wasn't right (don't know how to fix it) I later said that I don't believe that its the sleeping on the back that causes it! And as I also said, I personally know people who lost their child to SIDS. And still don't believe its because they were put to sleep on their stomach.

And to jacoby, AND YOU KNOW THAT ITS FOR THIS REASON THAT IT WAS REDUCED??!! you hear so many down syndrome babies born now, to SO many young mothers. I'm sure they'll come up with some other "scientific reason" that all of you are gonna jump to. Although it does say in sefarim, that all neshamas are gonna come down in the days before mashiach.
I guess you asked hashem about the reason for SIDS, did you at least ask him already where mashiach is, and when he's gonna bring an end to this corrupt world?

Every thing that happens in this world, be it SIDS or a tsunami in japan, is a wake up call for us! What are WE doing wrong in this world spiritually. So yes, we do have to do whatever we can to protect our kids from day to day tragedies, but NO scientist, whether they did a "study" or not, will know that this IS IT!! We know hashem runs the show, not them. Why hashem is doing this, we don't know. Why it "lessened" (I wonder what that means anyway) is also hashems reason. (And in the gashmios world it can be ANYTHING, they'll never know) but hashem SURELY did not mean for people to live a paranoid life, strapping their baby down on their backs, and standing over every move!! We gotta do the "norm"! Which is, put your baby to sleep the way he likes to sleep, and sleeps best. Cover him with a normal blanket (not too heavy, cause they CAN pull it over themselves) and don't leave things laying around inside. One amother said, we have to do the happy medium, that's right. to me that's the "happy medium". And to all our parents it also was. And why hashem brought on the SIDS "all of a sudden" WE DONT KNOW!!! You really think he brought it on us cause our babies are sleeping on our stomachs? I highly doubt it.
And all the other things people do, with a fan....etc....... WHERES YOUR TRUST IN HASHEM?!?! No fan is gonna protect your baby if its time for her to go!!!! We were told to protect our kids, to keep them out of danger, not stand over them, or have cameras starring at them!!! Gosh!!!

Capitalchick

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:15 am

amother wrote:

Amother, please stop saying that you're "with all of us". You're not. Your views are completely different than ours.
Why are you so stuck on this "Hashem rules all" bit you keep repeating? We ALL know that Hashem makes the final decisions about who lives and who dies and when they die. We ALL agree. But that does NOT mean that we shouldn't take steps to protect our children! Hashem expects and, in fact, demands that we take steps to protect our children.

You obviously do not believe in or respect doctors, researchers, or the findings they uncover in their research.
I don't expect you to know this, but there's a concept in research called "control", which means that when you discover something through research such as "fewer children die of SIDS when sleeping on their backs", you've already taken into consideration the possibility that it could also be other factors that are causing the reduction in infant deaths.

And I don't mean to be callous, but if your friend's child died suddenly in her sleep at 15 months, then it was not SIDS. SIDS is defined as the sudden death of a child under the age of 1.

Amother, do you look both ways before you cross a busy street? Do you wear a seatbelt in the car? Do you ensure that your children's play spaces are free of knives, matches and other dangerous objects?? Yes? You do all of those things? Well then you CLEARLY have no faith in Hashem! You're obviously not a true believer in His power, because you're demonstrating that believe you have some power and control over the safety of your children.

Does that sound ridiculous?? That's EXACTLY what you've been saying?? What, it's OK for you to take precautions like seatbelts and looking both ways before crossing a street, but we're all stupid heretics for taking steps to reduce the risk of SIDS?

You are coming across as someone who is exceptionally small-minded and uneducated. You have not provided any concrete explanations as to why your methods are smarter than ours. Everything you write is based on belief and faith....Well, guess what. We live in the actual, physical world where most people like to ACT to protect themselves, not just daven.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:19 am

Well guess what capitalchick, you hit it right in the bud. No after what our family has lived through, WE ALL DONT BELIEVE IN DRS AND RESEARCHERS, cause it was PROVEN more than once to be a bunch of baloney!!! Every day they come up with new stupidity, and everyone follows there lead.....
A dr turned chiropractor has told my sister many a shocking things going on in the medical world, if you only knew......
And yes I DO believe I'm a bit more open minded and learned than you!!
Yes! I do look where I cross, yes! I do keep dangerous things away from my kids! Cause that's our job, and our job is also to put our kids to sleep safely that nothing should happen in their sleep. And I did say a million times to yes, empty the crib and make sure they're "safe" but that's all we can do!!! You can't go by some researchers "deciding" that putting your baby on the back is the ONLY way to protect them! NO!!! Cause its NOT TRUE!! We do our best. We don't "overdo".
And I guess you didn't get the example I said about bubble wrapping your car. I wasn't talking about the "accident" part. I'm talking about "protecting" yourself. Yes we put on seatbelts to protect ourselves (that's what hashem wants of us) but you won't put bubble wrap around your car to REALLY protect yourself!! Will you? That's the same idea, you make sure your baby's safe, but up to what point will you go, in making sure your baby is "smothered" with your "protection".
As the saying goes: A person that's afraid of falling, will fall!

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:24 am

And just to add: An open mind = someone who knows "both worlds" and sees the truth.
A narrow mind = someone who ONLY sees one way, doesn't want to look anywhere else, they're head is stuck to one thing and that's all they know.

debboz

Wed, May 18 2011, 2:38 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses. Had no intention of creating a hashkafic debate. Sorry about that.

So my son sleeps in our bed, which means there are more blankets and pillows around, even when we try to keep them away from him. So although Iwill sometimes let him sleep on his tummy, I want to try to truck through this 'no back sleeping' stage.. Any advice on how to try to get him to better sleep on his back?

Thanks!

Kayza

Wed, May 18 2011, 11:12 pm

Capitalchick wrote:

MO = Call on G-d for help, but row away from the rocks.

Much more right wing communities = Spend all your time calling on G-d, because taking action is useless. If you crash into the rocks and drown, your time was just up anyway. Nothing you could've done.

Do you actually KNOW any "right wing" folks? None of the people I know have the attitude you describe.

Kayza

Wed, May 18 2011, 11:15 pm

allrgymama wrote:

Since we do cover her with a blanket (I live in a really old house. It's not possible to keep the house at a temperature that is good for me, DH and DD at the same time),

Why a blanket? Why not extra layers of pajama? It's FAR safer.

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