naomi ragen accused of plagiarism

Raisin

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:15 am

http://www.israelnationalnews......Gs_uc

There is another book of hers (the sacrifice of tamar) where Tamar gets to meet her future dil for the first time. When I read that passage I realised it was almost identical to a passage I had read in a frum womens compilation about a woman meeting her dil.

So tis clearly not the only case.

sister

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:20 am

be careful b4 you slander another woman, I am pretty sure its false

grace413

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:24 am

I know you can't believe everything you read in the paper but Haaretz reported that she was ordered to pay 200,000 shekel in compensation.

Raisin

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:25 am

sister wrote:

be careful b4 you slander another woman, I am pretty sure its false

I actaully really enjoy her books. But there were very very strong similarities in the two passages. I was even wondering if they written by the same person, but under different names.

I am not even talking about the case in the article - I have read sotah but I have not read growing with my children.

Raisin

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:30 am

I'm sure this happens very often. Dh was reading a childrens book once and there were many striking similarities between it and harry potter, yet it was published years before HP. I didn't read the book but there was a platform 14 /3/4, things like that.

Sometimes people authors things and forget about it and might end up putting it in their own work,

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:37 am

raisin, what exactly is your point is telling us all this?
(I feel like unless you have a direct source, this is completely lashon hara)

Raisin

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 5:56 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

raisin, what exactly is your point is telling us all this?
(I feel like unless you have a direct source, this is completely lashon hara)

the source is the fact that a court ordered her to pay another author money. Of course, it does not mean it is necessarily true, just that the judge thought it was true. (there was another case where she was found innocent)

BTW this would not stop me buying her books. I am just curious how often this happens, and how often it is noticed. In the Harry potter example I mentioned, the author did in fact notice, and was not bothered at all. She was flattered that JK rowling was inspired by her! In fact, the HP phenomanon made her books much mopre successful then they ever were before, and she made lots of money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/book.....ships

chocolate chips

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 6:32 am

I know another writer that this happened to. She wrote a story on the holocaust and shortly after another book came out with the EXACT same story but with different names.
The second author had to pay the original one as compensation.

grace413

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 7:08 am

This happens in the music world also. IIRC George Harrison had to pay royalties from "My sweet Lord" to a group with a similar song and there was alsio anoither case where somebody had to acknowledge the Beatles as the original source.

merelyme

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 8:44 am

Actually, the title should be, "Naomi Ragen fined after being found guilty of plagiarism."

Scotty

Wed, Mar 28 2012, 11:18 pm

Quote:

In the Harry potter example I mentioned, the author did in fact notice, and was not bothered at all. She was flattered that JK rowling was inspired by her! In fact, the HP phenomanon made her books much mopre successful then they ever were before, and she made lots of money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/book.....ships

Interesting article, raisin, but I'm completely confused - The Merlin Conspiracy has been one of my favorite books in, like, FOREVER, but I've never noticed any comparisons to Harry Potter aside from the basic wizard concept (and the Magids are ever so different than wizards, especially the Hogwartian version of 'em.) DWJ and JKR are about as different as two authors could possibly be - chocolate and vanilla - both absolutely fabulous but completely unrelated. I was laughing to hear the reporter compare Chrestomanci and Hogwarts - whaaaat? I'll bet the reporter never read a word of either :-)

Was DWJ where your DH came across platform 14 3/4? Sorry to be so picayune but I'm so curious - I'm a major DWJ fan.

sequoia

Thu, Mar 29 2012, 12:43 am

Oh, now you are making me curious. I've only read Howl's Moving Castle.

enneamom

Thu, Mar 29 2012, 1:06 am

Scotty wrote:

Quote:

I'm crazy over DWJ, too. Could they be referring to Witch Week? That's in the Chrestomanci series, and it's about a wizard school.

I've seen many attributing different aspects of HP to other books. The point is, fantasy is fantasy. You do have certain similarities here and there, but generally the whole should be greater than the sum of its parts. The key to a great fantasy is not just the right combination of wizards, dragons and swords. It's the writing, and the story, that make the tale.

That's what I love about Wynne Jones. Her plots and characters are amazing (though sometimes confusing!) The magic she uses has her own brand of quirkiness to it. What a pity she's no longer with us and can't write more such great stuff. Sigh.

As to the platform 9 3/4 business, could Raisin be referring to The Secret of Platform 13, by Eva Ibbotson (another good author?) I don't think I've read that one, but I've heard of it.

enneamom

Thu, Mar 29 2012, 1:08 am

sequoia wrote:

Oh, now you are making me curious. I've only read Howl's Moving Castle.

Definitely read as many as you can get your hands on. Howl's Moving Castle has 2 sequels, BTW.

Raisin

Thu, Mar 29 2012, 5:04 am

I can't remember which DWJ book it was, but I'm pretty sure it was one of those. DD loves them and reads them all the time. Possibly it was the Eve Ibbotson book, but I don't think so. I just remember him reading one of them and pointing out the many many similarities between this pook and HP. Maybe there was no platform something and a quarter.

I tired DWJ myself but couldn't really get through them. I started one of the chrestomanchi books, I think. I do see why a kid who likes HP would like these. Books about magic, humourously written. DD LOVES all the DWJ books. So certainly worth a read if you haven't read them.

The point is, DWJ admits there probably was some plagiarism but she doesn't mind at all. Although I think there is a difference between lifting ideas (no one has a copyright on dragons and spells) and lifting passages outright, which is just lazy.

merelyme

Thu, Mar 29 2012, 6:47 am

Raisin wrote:

Although I think there is a difference between lifting ideas (no one has a copyright on dragons and spells) and lifting passages outright, which is just lazy.

The former is legal, the latter not.