awareness by miriam adahan

Striver

Tue, Jul 24 2012, 2:38 am

Chani8, it's so interesting to read your take on the matter. I've always viewed 1's as superficial just because they seem to be so bogged down with perfection that it seems they can't think too deeply into anything. But then again, ideals at each number are more thoughtful, understanding, and deep, though not all to the same extent.
Since I'm a 3 with a STRONG 4 wing, I can't say I agree or disagree with your statement regarding 3's superficiality. Perhaps I get my depth from my four wing.

chani8

Tue, Jul 24 2012, 2:41 am

enneamom wrote:

In most of the differences you highlighted between 1s and 6s, the one traits described me better, and I'm a 6! One example is problem finding: 6s LIVE to find problems. They're skeptical detectives. If you want to work out the kinks of a project, tell it to a 6. They'll foresee every single possible thing that could ever maybe go wrong, so you can work safeguards into your project to prevent them from happening in the first place.

I think this describes a 6/5, very much. However, 1 doesn't focus on problems, they intuitively see the problems and areas that have room for improvement. It doesn't have to even be 'problem' per se, but an area of imperfection. When I say, "imperfection", you think, "problem" or "bad". 6s judge constantly, but 1s dont judge so much as intuit the need for improvement.

Quote:

Also, don't forget that there are two kinds of 6s: phobic and counter-phobic, and most 6s fluctuate between the two. Phobic 6s are the ones who always follow rules, counter phobic 6s tend to revolt against rules, or at least test the waters. This also manifests in less extreme ways. That's why type 6 is called the "loyal skeptic"--we either trust or we don't, and we can have the hardest time deciding which modus operandi is best.

Yes, that is why 1s and 6s get along, because a 6 can understand the 1's view against a stupid rule, and rebel against it with the 1.

Quote:

Your understanding of the enneagram is interesting to me. As I understand it, no one type has "better" middos. They each have different degrees of various traits, but no type is healthier than another. Each uses their traits for good or bad, depending on the level of health.

I did not mean 'better' - I meant, it seems to me that some personalities are inherently a certain way (isn't this so?) while a 1 is defined not so much by a particular inherent trait, other than the trait of 'striving for whatever they think is a good trait'. Now that I think about it more, however, I realize that all the personality types have goals, of course.

I've debated posting this, because I'm not sure if I'm clear or correct... Wink

chani8

Tue, Jul 24 2012, 3:09 am

I really wish I could make myself clear on the 1 and 6 differences. I know 1s are misread a lot of times, and maybe rightly so, I don't know. I can just say that what bothers me, is that people take the 1s as judgemental. We are not judgemental the way you think. Judgemental is so much more a 6 thing.

For example:

I can say, "you need to change your shirt so that it's not so tight," without thinking bad thoughts about the wearer. I am judging, in that I am seeing that there is a discrepency between what is, and what 'should be'. I wouldn't think, "You terrible person, you're being disgusting." No judgement enters my mind, in the way most people think of being judgemental. More like, I've decided that this is the correct way, the best way, the most emesdik way, to be. It's definitely judging, but without being emotionally judgemental against others.

If you said to me, "I don't care about your stupid rules on tznius," I'd be shocked. I'd think, why wouldn't you want to be the best you can be? I would not think, "you're a terrible person." A 6 would think, "You're not following the rules!" and therefore, "you're bad!"

6s say, "yuck, that's not right. That's not ok. That's not acceptable." 1s probably think those same things, I don't know, but we definitely dont dwell on that aspect, and instead move straight forward to, 'fix this'.

Personally, I hate thinking about a problem that can't be fixed. While a 6 is happy to point out problems, maybe even dwell on them, even when there is nothing to be done about it. (ETA, In fact, a 1 gets depressed or indignant when problems can't or wont be fixed, or worse, others refuse to acknowledge the imperfections in the first place - that makes a 1 feel crazy/confused.)

I criticize only if it will help, but a 6 criticizes simply because they see the problem. Then again, maybe this is just me, and can't be generalized to all 1s.

enneamom

Tue, Jul 24 2012, 11:07 am

chani8 wrote:

Personally, I hate thinking about a problem that can't be fixed. While a 6 is happy to point out problems, maybe even dwell on them, even when there is nothing to be done about it. (ETA, In fact, a 1 gets depressed or indignant when problems can't or wont be fixed, or worse, others refuse to acknowledge the imperfections in the first place - that makes a 1 feel crazy/confused.)

Honestly it all sounds like semantics and levels of health to me, except the bolded line--it's true 6's tend to dwell in the problem.

Doesn't everyone get depressed when imperfections are not acknowledged? Actually, I can see a difference there--as a 6, if imperfections are not acknowledged, I will feel crazy and confused too, but mainly I will doubt the validity of my feeling that there's a problem in the first place.

chani8 wrote:

it seems to me that some personalities are inherently a certain way (isn't this so?) while a 1 is defined not so much by a particular inherent trait, other than the trait of 'striving for whatever they think is a good trait'. Now that I think about it more, however, I realize that all the personality types have goals, of course.

1s do have a style IME, They tend to be more no-nonesense, not interested in things they consider pointless or extra, and always seem to know the best way to do things. They're great people to ask for advice. Without 1s, where would we all be? They help set our moral compasses and are an example to us all! That said, I do know some very judgemental 1s. I would never ask their opinion on certain things for fear of being embarrassed by "You do XYZ?! Why on earth?" Again, it's all in the person and their level of development.

Any type can be superficial or deep. Most of the 7s I know are deep, not superficial. 3s, though...can't say I've met too many deep 3s. No, I take that back...I can think of one or two, though they're combo types. But isn't everyone? I rarely can fit any person into a single neat type.

chani8

Mon, Jul 30 2012, 5:27 am

From the enneagram institute:

Quote:

Despite the subtleties and complexities involved, there is really no secret about typing people. You must learn which traits go with each type and observe how people manifest those traits. This is a subtle undertaking because there are many subtypes and quirks to each personality type. Different types can sometimes seem similar, particularly if their motivations are not taken into account. This is why it is not sufficient to focus on a single trait in isolation and make a diagnosis based on it alone. It is necessary to see each type as a whole— its overall style, approach to life, and especially its underlying motivations—before you can determine someone's type reliably. Many elements must come together before you can be sure that you have typed someone accurately.

I thought that was interesting, and confirmed what we've all been saying here. It's sometimes hard to type a person without knowing the underlying motivations for their actions.

I still don't have clarity on my one child, and wish there were questions we could ask someone to help determine their number. As well, when we know the child's number, how can we use that insight to better direct and parent them. The only book I saw on this subject, was very much into the mother figuring herself out so that she can be her best.

b.chadash

Sun, Oct 14 2012, 7:27 am

Bumping this.
Are there any imamothers out there who are NINEs? I would love to connect with other frum women who are also NINEs. I know that typically, nines are not into things like the enneagram, (most of u posters said you were FOURs I think), but I also have a lot of FIVE in me...I have read lots of books on this system, not just awareness, but I liked awareness best.,
In the myers briggs, I'm an INTP. My dh is ESTP. Anyone relate?

smss

Wed, Feb 20 2013, 12:02 pm

b.chadash wrote:

I'm a 9...married to a 9 shock

INFP. I'm not sure what my husband is in mb...

amother

Olive

Wed, Feb 20 2013, 1:26 pm

Striver wrote:

Newlywed, I'm a three but I think my strong wing is four, not so much two.
Actually, today was the last day of an EMETT course I arranged that was given by Miriam. It taught me so much about myself and others.

I think I am a 3w4 or a 4w3 too! Can you describe your personality? How can I know what my predominant number is? In good times or bad times?

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jul 03 2018, 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Olive

Wed, Feb 20 2013, 1:30 pm

newly-wed wrote:

Is anyone a 3 with wings of a 2 and 4?
I really need someone to talk to, and I think another 3 imamother would be great to connect with!

I am too. No 2 wings though... I am def. more of an introvert. I have a slightly depressive and artistic nature, especially when my life seems to be caught in a rut. At other times, when I feel successful and productive my 3 side really shines- that is when I feel really content and happy.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jul 03 2018, 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

Striver

Thu, Feb 21 2013, 12:35 am

Mommycookies wrote:

newly-wed wrote:

Is anyone a 3 with wings of a 2 and 4?
I really need someone to talk to, and I think another 3 imamother would be great to connect with!

The way you describe yourself, I'd venture to say you're a four with a strong three wing. A three will always be very self-motivated and into doing stuff.

chocolate fondue

Mon, Mar 04 2013, 2:16 pm

Quote:

I'm a nine. My husband is a four, I think. I don't know why nines wouldn't be into things like a enneagram. I find it fascinating.

b.chadash

Mon, Mar 04 2013, 3:57 pm

Well, according to miriam adahan, the fours and fives are most likely to be interested in the enneagram. Fives, because of the intellectual stimulation and the desire to know information, and fours because they are deep and try to find meaning behind things, iirc.
However, nines, becausee of their inclusive nature, may have a hard time pegging themselves as one type. Also, they may have an aversion to the whole concept because it suggests separate groups, and nines are very into harmony and peace.
Personally, as a nine, I find it fascinating to hear what makes others tick, because it helps me to be more emphathetic to them.
I have two siblings who are also nines, and the three of us seem to be on the same wavelength always and get along great (to the exclusion of the other siblings, who are harder for us to get along with). However, while they seem interested in the enneagram when I talk about it, neither of them is particularly analytical. I have a very strong five component, and I always thought that that is why this fascinates me.