How to react when a daughter announces, wants to wear pants?

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 9:04 am

bandcm wrote:

Isn´t Dati Leumi sort of the equivalent of Modern Orthodox in the USA, and Bnei Akiva in England?
As for the pants, maybe buy her really cute (soft) pants to wear at home for pyjamas, but remind her that we don´t go out like that because it´s not tznius. Some teenage girls are dying to see what it feels like to wear pants, and need to just get it out their system.

dati leumi is more like england's bnei akiva than an overall statement that it is like modern orthodox in america. not all modox ppl in america will be for the state of israel, just for an example. but that is the definition of datil LEUMI (nationalistic - leum means nation)

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 9:32 am

Quote:

amother2-do you encourage or discourage the breaking up of a frienship, with the girl who she decided this with? ths girl is her only really interested friend right now

neither, I would remain neutral about it but keep a sharp eye out at the same time. I would discourage certain activities that might come up, but not comment on a friendship. at 13 I dont think girls really care about whether or not their mother wants them to break up a friendship she doesn't like. at least I didn't, it just made me laugh at her and want to make the friendship stronger. (amother3)

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 9:47 am

Amother two here,
I like the idea of getting her pajama pants, but first I"d ask her about her reason for wanting pants. I might say something like, "Chava, I've been thinking about what you asked me this week, that you wanna wear pants. I've just been wondering why. " If she doesn't respond, or has a hard time finding the words, I'd say, "Do you think you might just feel more comfortable in them?" If she says yeah yeah, I'd say, would you like to try a nice set of pajamas...
I don't know the nature of your relationship with your dd. But I think it makes a diff. If there's friction bet. the two of you, (as is bet. myself and my ds) I'd tread carefully, I'd seek professional input (which I do, and it's making a huge difference, just having the right words in response to those 'crazy' requests...)
BTW, I would not lecture on tznius in the manner that Shoy mentioned. I don't think it's gonna bring her any closer to her heritage. And besides, she knows all about tznius from her teachers and from the home, rubbing it in won't help matters.
From someone who's been such a teenager, and wishing my parents had consulted a professional, cuz their tactics only served to alienate me...

yersp

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 10:32 am

DefyGravity wrote:

I don't see how allowing her to wear pajama pants is going to make a difference. Maybe she's allowed to wear them now anyways. Remember, a lot of people don't have a problem wearing pj pants within the home and wouldn't think twice about wearing pj pants.

It's not hard to figure out why someone would want to wear pants - they're easier deal with in the winter and they're easier to walk in.

For me, I B"H have not had and still do not have the taaveh to wear pajama pants. I never saw my mother wear it, my sister and sil's don't wear them. So if my dd would come to ask me to get them for her, I would first try to find out why. If it's because of what the OP wrote, then yes, I guess it would make a difference to her so I would get it for her.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 10:41 am

Each one of my kids asked why they couldn't wear a kippa sruga (not that its wrong, just not our derech and it kills chance of going to a charedi yeshiva for good boys). I couldn't criticize if I wanted to seeing where we live. I just told each one when he asked that it is not our minhag and they were always immediately agreeing. My nephew asked for one from dh and he bought it. Life as been somewhat of a gehinnom here since.

With love, with communication, with respect make the rules. A 13 yr old deserves with that an explanation. If you respect your relationship this will be a small bump.

As to the friend, watch it well. Any friendships at this age you should make your home open for their gathering. My Mom always had our house open to all the neighborhood's kids. We weren't angels but we felt like we had a home and there was much less chance of getting big unwelcome surprise from your kids.

redhot

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 12:20 pm

E59Y wrote:

.

For me, I B"H have not had and still do not have the taaveh to wear pajama pants. I never saw my mother wear it, my sister and sil's don't wear them. So if my dd would come to ask me to get them for her, I would first try to find out why. If it's because of what the OP wrote, then yes, I guess it would make a difference to her so I would get it for her.

not everyone sees pajama pants as something that is even a 'taivah'.

in MY home, my mother wore pajama pants, and so did I and all my sisters. It was a given. I never saw it as some sort of illegal temptation.

TzenaRena

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 12:52 pm

Quote:

BTW, I would not lecture on tznius in the manner that Shoy mentioned. I don't think it's gonna bring her any closer to her heritage. And besides, she knows all about tznius from her teachers and from the home, rubbing it in won't help matters.
From someone who's been such a teenager, and wishing my parents had consulted a professional, cuz their tactics only served to alienate me...

I wouldn't call what Shoy says a lecture. it's more a heart to heart mother-daughter talk. I couldn't agree more. We have had many of those with our daughter, and they have been very much of an influence for the good. They did not cause rebellion, very much the opposite. In our case, my husband was very firm and loving with my daughter at the same time.

Every time he didn't like what she was wearing for tznius reasons he expressed disapproval, listened to her tears, and then discussed the importance of tznius, and a Jewish daughter's connection with Hashem through tznius. These were deep, meaningful talks, and has helped her become what she is today.

And I like the suggestion of the boots too. What teenager doesn't love a new pair of boots? And she will see that her mother means it for her good.

Contrast this :

Quote:

in MY home, my mother wore pajama pants, and so did I and all my sisters. It was a given. I never saw it as some sort of illegal temptation.

with this:

Quote:

Girls will take their cues from their mother.

For those who do wear pj pants, walking around the house in it is walking around in pants, to my mind's eye. what happens when you have to go to the bathroom? I had a guest recently who wore pj pants, and I asked her to put on a robe when she leaves her bedroom, for the sake of the menfolk in our home.

Bandcm I disagree that pj pants will change this girl's taivah. If anything they can whet it further. (Who is to say she's not wearing pj's already?)

Which is why I didn't like the idea of pants at the gym for my dd's sixth grade class at the time. that feeling of forbidden waters are sweet. I didn't want her to feel the "thrill" of being able to wear something usually forbidden. Since it was halachacally permissible, I had to allow it, but it wasn't something I preferred.

I agree with imaonwheels about being firm, but providing explanations.

DefyGravity

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 12:55 pm

sthillmom wrote:

E59Y wrote:

Yeah, to me, wearing pj pants wasn't a taiva. It was just wearing pj pants! Nothing to even think about.

Wearing pants out in public was a completely different issue. Wearing jeans is a lot different than wearing flannel pants. Would you even consider wearing your nightie out in public? Is it interchangeable with dresses that you'd wear out? No!

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 1:52 pm

TzenaRena wrote:

Quote:

in MY home, my mother wore pajama pants, and so did I and all my sisters. It was a given. I never saw it as some sort of illegal temptation.

with this:

Quote:

I agree with defy here. for me a s well, pants was never something to even be considered a taava, it was just for pajamas and in the house if I was cold, that was it. it never even crossed my mind to wear them out to the store or something like that.

you asked about walking around in the house and what if you have to go to the bathroom? so, you go to the bathroom. I dont see the question. I know that when we have guests over, I always put on a skirt or a robe to go to the bathroom. only in front of my father and brother do I walk around in sweatpants (those are the male folk that I walk around in front of, women, it could be anyone).

I also disagree what you wrote about not wanting pants for gym for your daughter's class. to me, growing up, we always had to bring sweatpants to school JUST and ONLY for gym. it was known that the pants went on for gym (more tzanua than running around in a skirt) and then came right off when that period was finished.

HindaRochel

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 3:25 pm

Quote:

For those who do wear pj pants, walking around the house in it is walking around in pants, to my mind's eye. what happens when you have to go to the bathroom? I had a guest recently who wore pj pants, and I asked her to put on a robe when she leaves her bedroom, for the sake of the menfolk in our home.

This point confuses me a bit. Wouldn't you ask her to put a robe on no matter what nightwear she was wearing? Unless she was going to bed in sweats or a robe.

I wouldn't mind someone walking about in sweats in the house, but a nightgown sans a robe, and I take it that this was an over 10 someone, would bug me as much as pjs.

As far as wearing pants and what you should do: depends on the neighborhood, why she is asking, how you view the wearing of pants, why she wants to wear pants, where she wants to wear them and when.

If my daughter wanted to wear pants I would talk about why I don't, ask if she means under her skirt (which I wouldn't mind) and talk to her about what we felt was halachically permissable and why.

mumoo

Thu, Jan 04 2007, 8:29 pm

I have the feeling its not really about pants. Asking about not letting dd be friends with the girl makes me think there is an issue of bad influences.

We are all influenced by those around us. Jews tend to stay together in communities for support (if everyone does it, its maybe not so wacky). I have seen very modern girls start to dress like my dd's when they hung around together. I've seen my own dd want to wear shorter skirts and be more concerned about jewelry, purses, etc. when pals with a different girl. It seems that the least secure one is the one more easily influenced.

The best way to keep dd on your derech is to make her feel very positive about herself, in relations with you, with her father, and in relation to her yiddishkeit.

I recommend lots of listening, asking, and open communication. She should always know that she can come to you. And don't forbid a friendship. Never works.

This is a really hard age for girls, remember?